Chevy TrailBlazer, TrailBlazer SS and GMC Envoy Forum banner

PCM needs replacement and reflash????help

15K views 14 replies 10 participants last post by  Robo1972  
#1 ·
Just got 04 with 4.2 out of shop. Check engine light says "rich, bank one"". I've used my code reader to turn off 3 times, put fuel injector cleaner in tank. Keeps coming on and will occasionally shut of by itself. Independant shop says I need a new PCM and have it "flashed".
Any thoughts? I don't see this problem anywhere on the forum.
Thanks:):tiphat
 
#2 · (Edited)
rich bank one refers to your upstream oxygen sensor. Your air fuel mixture is too rich.

(Side note that for searching problems here, having the actual error code will get you better
results, like P0171 or P0172..those are zeros, by the way)

Do not go back to that mechanic if the first thing they said was PCM replace instead of
O2 sensor.

How many miles? Some members change their O2 sensors at the same time as they
do plugs.

How's the overall maintenance? There are other things that can cause a rich reading
at the sensor. Changed your air filter? Cleaned the throttle body? Directions can be found here
on Trailvoy for a more thorough way to clean than what most garages do. Anything that can
influence the air/fuel mixture can cause a rich reading. Even plugs not igniting all the fuel
can lead to a rich reading.

Just running fuel system cleaner once through isn't going to cut through a long term
buildup. Multiple runs with top tier (name brand) fuel and a fuel system cleaner like
Seafoam or Techron will help, but may still not solve the entire problem.

So, give us some more maintenance info, and hopefully we can help narrow down
the issue. If you;re not up to doing your own work, I'd start asking around for recommendations
about trustworthy mechanics that can actually do basic troubleshooting. The one you went to
apparently can't even follow what the computer is telling them, much less do decent diagnosis.

Good Luck!

Chris
 
#5 ·
I just got back from the shop. I too was told to get my pcm re flashed. I was getting a P0172 & another error. Reason it was at the shop for check engine. One error was the crank shaft sensor and that was replaced. He said that the p0172 is rich, and GM has newer software to make it better.
I'm going to do the obvious, thermostat, throttle body, air filter and fuel filter. I know i forgetting something. After reading all the posts on the possibilities of the P0172, then ill get my cat along with the O2s replaced.

If i do get my pcm re flashed, will i loose my PCM 4 Less tune?
Should i first call PCM4Less first and see if they heard of such a thing. (Newer parameters for the Trailvoys.)

BTW I'm averaging 16.3-18 mpg......so far & noticing I'm 1-2 ticks below 210 on my temp gauge.
 
#8 · (Edited)
rwj, you need a new shop. I have never heard of a PCM going bad. They are just being lazy and trying to diagnose with the shotgun approach.

Simple question. What is your temperature gauge read while driving? Is it straight up, is the needle a tick to the left, or is the needle a tick to the right?

EXT, you are using the shotgun approach to fixing problems (as exhibited by rwj's mechanic above.) There are tried and true methods to diagnose this code and you don't need to randomly replace parts that are working correctly.

The first suspect is the thermostat or coolant temp sensor. I ask the same question of anyone who is indicating their engine is running rich: is your temp gauge straight up, a tick to the left or a tick to the right? If it is a tick or two to the left as you say, has it been like that for long, and does it wander up and down at highway speeds or is it rock solid to the left?

If rock-solid, it is likely the thermostat. If it wanders, it is likely the coolant temp sensor. (The reality is that they are side-by-side, so you might as well just replace both anyway.)

Also, cleaning the throttle body is good advice, but you only need to change the fuel filter if you suspect bad gas or according to the maintenance schedule. In all my years of working on cars, I have come to realize two rules about fuel filters: #1 - It is never the fuel filter, and #2 - Fuel filters are the most needlessly replaced part oversold by mechanics in America next to nitrogen for tires.

Spark plugs should be changed as they near 100,000 miles and also replace the front O2 sensor at the same time. If you suspect your front O2 sensor has failed prematurely (usually when AC Delco is replaced by Bosch) then get a scan tool with a live readout and find out for SURE. Reading a scan tool will show you not only the state of your front and rear O2 sensors, but also the state of your cat converter.

The rear O2 sensor is rarely replaced because it does not control the engine in any way, and cannot possibly lead to a rich mixture. It is there only to check the performance of your cat.

As for the cat, it will indicate replacement is due long before you get a check engine light. it will start with deteriorating acceleration, especially at highway speeds and less ability to climb hills.

Basically, our rule of thumb in here is to DIAGNOSE FIRST, then start with the easiest, cheapest and most common problem first before spending a lot of money on unnecessary parts.

Good luck and let us know what happens!
 
#13 ·
rwj,
I have a 2004 Envoy 4.2 AWD. I have been Trying to figure out how to test my ECM to find out for sure if it's bad. I have gremlins and worse I've been having issues that Should be fixed already. Right now it's:: getting 8.5 mpg, rough running because it's misfiring, Lean code, I'm getting raw gas into my exhaust, etc...
I have run more Good quality cleaners through the fuel system, replaced the fuel pump and filter, getting good fuel pressure, no leaks can be seen Anywhere, cleaned and replaced the throttle body because sensors are built in, cleaned MAP, checked plugs, etc... The sensors don't seem to be sending the correct information or something?
I'm down to Trying to figure out a way to find out if my ECM is bad. Visually, it looks fine. Lol. Thank you!
 
#12 ·
Thanks but will a clog cat eventually cause a cracked manifold? I have been reading a lot on here and the pattern I see clogged cat = cracked manifold. I just want to get to that point with a cracked manifold. So far knock on wood its running strong and no signs of clogged cat.
Thanks
 
#14 ·
Welcome to the Forum!!!

Please start a new thread (you are in the correct forum/sub-forum) because this thread has been inactive for over 10 years.

Please include the year, make, model and engine of your vehicle. All the Diagnostic Trouble Codes (DTCs) (current, historical, and pending) that are retrieved using a code reader/data scanner, what your problem or problems are (one problem per paragraph please), what work has been done recently, and what your level of automotive mechanical experience you have.

Good Luck
 
#15 ·
Just got 04 with 4.2 out of shop. Check engine light says "rich, bank one"". I've used my code reader to turn off 3 times, put fuel injector cleaner in tank. Keeps coming on and will occasionally shut of by itself. Independant shop says I need a new PCM and have it "flashed".
Any thoughts? I don't see this problem anywhere on the forum.
Thanks:):tiphat
My light came on after filling up my tank with Premium gas and a gas treatment before going on a 5 hour drive. My light came on about an hour after I started driving. I came across a video on here. I think that's correct where he said that if you use the premium gas and too much gas cleaner and actually can cost more damage than good.
So I stopped using the premium gas and started just using regular gas and never had an issue..