[JDW3]

My 2005 has been nickel and dimeing me for a couple years.

I tried to get my oil changed yesterday and the guy wouldn't do it because of all the oil underneath. I took it to be serviced, thinking it was a leaking tranny pan. No. It's the lines that have rusted. OK, that will get me out of the filter and flush for the tranny.

Wrong. My tranny dipstick is broken. It will not come out. So they HAVE to drop the pan to try and get it out. Which of course, means you may as well buy the filter and have it completed.

Another $570.00 to make a 4 year old truck workable.

These truck remind me of some early '70s Chinese made crap. Everything plastic and what metal there is, rusting and breaking.

 

[Urbanarkansas]

Are you not still under waranty?
Just wondering...

 

[JDW3]

I bought the truck used. It has 137,000 miles on it.

 

[neelskit]

These truck remind me of some early '70s Chinese made crap. Everything plastic and what metal there is, rusting and breaking.

You live in Michigan- what did you expect?

Being in Indiana, I make a point to at least go through the gas station car wash once a week in the winter. My TB is an '02 and has no rust at all.

Besides, every make/model vehicle has its' own vices. I have a buddy that is replacing the drive shaft and rear diff in his Honda CR-V that will attest to this.

:m2:

 

[JDW3]

You live in Michigan- what did you expect?

Being in Indiana, I make a point to at least go through the gas station car wash once a week in the winter. My TB is an '02 and has no rust at all.

Besides, every make/model vehicle has its' own vices. I have a buddy that is replacing the drive shaft and rear diff in his Honda CR-V that will attest to this.

:m2:

You are correct. I have lived in Michigan my entire life.

I've never owned a vehicle that has rusted so quickly. The underside of the hood is rusted through the metal. There are spots all over the vehicle that are orange.

 

[Doc Brown]

You live in Michigan- what did you expect?

Being in Indiana, I make a point to at least go through the gas station car wash once a week in the winter. My TB is an '02 and has no rust at all.

Besides, every make/model vehicle has its' own vices. I have a buddy that is replacing the drive shaft and rear diff in his Honda CR-V that will attest to this.

:m2:

Sorry to be a spoil sport. But I'm with JDW3. My TB is becoming the biggest turd I have ever owned. Even my old Cadillac Catera, ruputed to be one of the worst and least reliable cars ever made my GM (I knew that going into it), cost me less time and money than my TB over the same period of time. I have twice had to cancel long trips due to the cost of repairs that had to made on the TB. The kicker is that I bought the truck to tow my travel trailer cross country once a year. In 3 1/2 years of ownership, I have only been able to do a trip like this once now. When the TB is running right, its a great truck. Trouble is, the annual cost of maintenance has become very high. I have to stick $500 - $1000 dollars into it every year for things that GM admits are problems in their TSBs. I never had to do that with any GM truck I've owned in the past.

I keep my vehicles for 150 - 175 thousand miles. I have never had to replace a power steering pump, fix rusted transmission lines, or replace a catalytic convertor (which is what I may be faced with right now) on any other car or truck I have owned in 30 years. I had to do all this on the TB. I have not had the doors rust on any vehicle in the last 15 years or so below 100k miles, which is what my TB has done. I never owned 4WD, but why should the electronics be so flaky and cost a fortune to fix? I have never had a wiper motor die like the one on the rear hatch. Should I go on? You get the idea. Some of the guys here just sort of suck it up and take it in stride. I usually do too, but this is getting really old. Unfortunately I'm not in a position to replace it, or it would have been gone a year ago.

 

[bartonmd]

You are correct. I have lived in Michigan my entire life.

I've never owned a vehicle that has rusted so quickly. The underside of the hood is rusted through the metal. There are spots all over the vehicle that are orange.

Pretty sure there is a 5-6 year rust-through warranty on the body... You might check on that... May also cover anything that rusts through... like your cooler lines...

On yeah... do that stuff yourself, and it would be $75...

Mike

 

[bartonmd]

whoops... 6 years, 100k

Covered for six years/100,000 miles*
Corrosion Protection
GMC vehicles are designed and built to resist corrosion. All body and sheet metal components are warranted against rust-through corrosion for six years or 100,000 miles, whichever comes first. Application of additional rust-inhibiting materials is not required under the corrosion coverage and none is recommended. See your GMC dealer for terms of this limited warranty.

 

[the roadie]

Semi-off-topic: Anybody consider lobbying the state to just quit using salt? It's an environmental disaster, the cost of repairing cars is a hidden (well, in your cases not so hidden) tax, and all for what? So people can evade the personal responsibility of being able to drive competently on snow?

Oregon, for instance, uses no salt. Sometimes a more expensive compound on certain hilly city streets. And sometimes you just have to wait for it to melt or get rained away. Like in the old days.

People have gotten out of the habit of carrying and using chains for extremely bad conditions. Chains on my Volvo wagon (and learning to drive in the mountains of western Mass) got me through 24" of snow in Boston during the blizzard of '78. If it's bad out, you need to get up early to shovel the driveway and put on the chains. When the roads get cleared even in the middle of your commute, you have to stop and take OFF the chains. You can't put on nice clothes and fancy shoes, hop in a pre-heated car, drive in style to work, and hop out ready to go. You have to get dirty sometime. You have to do manual labor.

Complaining about salt damage without taking into account the easy commutes you enjoy because of its use, is just disingenuous, IMHO. No vehicle should need to be designed to be soaked in corrosive compounds for half its life. And as has been noted, regular wintertime washing is an effective defense.

 

[Doc Brown]

As one who has lived his entire life in the "salt belt", I can attest to the value of regular, weekly washes. Sometimes that isn't feasable though. The last two winters were horrendous. The worst we've had in years. MN has experienced it even worse than we have where I live. Not only was there a lot of snow, it snowed almost every other day. Impossible to keep a car clean for more than a day. Maybe life in beautiful, sunny SD has made you forget a little?

While salt certainly accelerates rust, just driving around with a dirty, wet vehicle for months at a crack doesn't help either. Regardless of salt, late model GMs seem to be prone to the bottoms of doors rusting due to poor drainage design. This issue isn't limited to TBs. The middle '80s to late '90s GMs I've owned didn't seem to be nearly as rust prone.

Incidentally, the past two winters have killed the budgets of most municipalities in my area. To the point that sand replaced salt as each winter dragged on. IMO, sand isn't any better. Just better for traction.

 

[JDW3]

When the TB is running right, its a great truck. Trouble is, the annual cost of maintenance has become very high. I have to stick $500 - $1000 dollars into it every year for things that GM admits are problems in their TSBs. I never had to do that with any GM truck I've owned in the past.

I keep my vehicles for 150 - 175 thousand miles. I have never had to replace a power steering pump, fix rusted transmission lines, or replace a catalytic convertor (which is what I may be faced with right now) on any other car or truck I have owned in 30 years. I had to do all this on the TB. I have not had the doors rust on any vehicle in the last 15 years or so below 100k miles, which is what my TB has done. I never owned 4WD, but why should the electronics be so flaky and cost a fortune to fix? I have never had a wiper motor die like the one on the rear hatch. Should I go on? You get the idea. Some of the guys here just sort of suck it up and take it in stride. I usually do too, but this is getting really old. Unfortunately I'm not in a position to replace it, or it would have been gone a year ago.

I just sold my '97 Chevy 1500, which had 260,000 miles. Kinda regret it. There was a bit of maintenance, but it didn't rust until it was about 8 years old. I really love those mid '90s Chevy trucks. I've had 2 of them. The 4.3 Vortec has got to be one of the best motors they've ever made.

The TB rides nice, but yes, it is very expensive to maintain and at this rate, who knows how long it will last?

I agree, MI needs to stop using salt. The roads are being repaved every day somewhere in MI.

 

[neelskit]

I guess I have been lucky with my TB. Mine has 120k miles on the clock and I have not had any of these issues that you mention.

Everyone has different experiences with any particular make/model. I could list all the repairs I made on the 2 Chrysler minivans I owned before my TB, and I spent almost as much as I paid for them in repairs just to keep them drivable.

All I was stating is that when you live where salt is used on the roads, you have corrosion problems. I also agree that GM could have done a much better job on several points with the TB. I'm irritated that almost every interior light bulb (Cluster/HVAC Controls/Radio/etc.) is burnt out in my TB while every lighted control panel in my '94 Astro Van is still lit! But, my TB is still reliable, has never stranded me, and runs/drives as well as the day I bought it.

I'm sorry if I seemed harsh or if I reacted poorly to JDW3's post.

 

[the roadie]

There are so many design errors and marginal decisions made on the GMT360 platform, and we heard reports of a team of interns working on the suspension section at least, that I think it WAS worked on entirely too much by interns without enough adult, experienced, supervision.

GM cheaped out in a way that benefited them short-term, and stuck us with the out-year costs. Quelle surprise.

 

[Doc Brown]

I just sold my '97 Chevy 1500, which had 260,000 miles. Kinda regret it. There was a bit of maintenance, but it didn't rust until it was about 8 years old. I really love those mid '90s Chevy trucks. I've had 2 of them. The 4.3 Vortec has got to be one of the best motors they've ever made.

Funny, my best GM trucks were my '92 GMC Safari, and '95 'Burb. I traded the Safari with 120k on it simply because my wife never liked it and wanted a mini-van. She hated the mini-van even more after the first year, so it turned into a wasted effort. I really miss that Safari. But even the mini-van, a 2000 Pontiac Montana never gave us any trouble. I gave the 'Burb to my dad when we got the TB because we wanted something with lower miles on for "reliability" on long trips. So much for that. It has 165k on it now and he's towing his 20' 1977 Jayco travel trailer with it. He loves it, and I miss it dearly. It just first started showing rust last summer.

There are so many design errors and marginal decisions made on the GMT360 platform, and we heard reports of a team of interns working on the suspension section at least, that I think it WAS worked on entirely too much by interns without enough adult, experienced, supervision.

GM cheaped out in a way that benefited them short-term, and stuck us with the out-year costs. Quelle surprise.

In theory, this will not be the MO of the "new" GM. Recent offerings like the new CTS and Malibu seem to indicate that they may actually "get it" now. I've always bought GM almost exclusively. So I'd like to think the best and hope that my next GM truck will be as good as some I've owned in the past. So far my HHR is pretty decent, only a couple of minor problems, but there again, it's only got 30k on it and the doors have rust bubbles!

 

[glfredrick]

Semi-off-topic: Anybody consider lobbying the state to just quit using salt? It's an environmental disaster, the cost of repairing cars is a hidden (well, in your cases not so hidden) tax, and all for what? So people can evade the personal responsibility of being able to drive competently on snow?

Oregon, for instance, uses no salt. Sometimes a more expensive compound on certain hilly city streets. And sometimes you just have to wait for it to melt or get rained away. Like in the old days.

People have gotten out of the habit of carrying and using chains for extremely bad conditions. Chains on my Volvo wagon (and learning to drive in the mountains of western Mass) got me through 24" of snow in Boston during the blizzard of '78. If it's bad out, you need to get up early to shovel the driveway and put on the chains. When the roads get cleared even in the middle of your commute, you have to stop and take OFF the chains. You can't put on nice clothes and fancy shoes, hop in a pre-heated car, drive in style to work, and hop out ready to go. You have to get dirty sometime. You have to do manual labor.

Complaining about salt damage without taking into account the easy commutes you enjoy because of its use, is just disingenuous, IMHO. No vehicle should need to be designed to be soaked in corrosive compounds for half its life. And as has been noted, regular wintertime washing is an effective defense.

From my vantage point, it would be virtually impossible to replace salt as a de-icing agent in most of North America. Yes, in heavy snow country, salt isn't worth much -- it doesn't do much when you have 2 feet on the ground, but for many of our major cities, the normal is more like an inch of ice/snow mix that can grind traffic to a halt, not to mention all the injuries and expenses that come with all the wrecks.

Last winter, we had once ice storm that dumped over 1" of solid ice on every outdoor surface. Nothing else besides salt is even close to touching that sort of problem. Yes, there are other chlorides -- we're using potasium and magnesium cloride blends around our expensive landscape beds where I work -- and the cost is about $16 for a 50# bag compared to salt at $4. Now, load an entire twin-screw county truck and start spreading city streets... Other products that have some value are sand (and sand/salt mix -- used in northern states), beet pulp, and liquid calcium carbide (wet salt). The natural products need to be blended with salt products to work best, but can act as extenders.

It is a difficult problem, and unfortunately one that won't go away just becasue we don't like our cars rusting. But, better rust than what happens when you center-punch a tree at 50...

 

[JDW3]

Funny, my best GM trucks were my '92 GMC Safari, and '95 'Burb. I traded the Safari with 120k on it simply because my wife never liked it and wanted a mini-van. She hated the mini-van even more after the first year, so it turned into a wasted effort. I really miss that Safari. But even the mini-van, a 2000 Pontiac Montana never gave us any trouble. I gave the 'Burb to my dad when we got the TB because we wanted something with lower miles on for "reliability" on long trips. So much for that. It has 165k on it now and he's towing his 20' 1977 Jayco travel trailer with it. He loves it, and I miss it dearly. It just first started showing rust last summer.

I recently seen a very clean, '95 or so Suburban 2500, 4x4. All black with tinted windows and chrome wheels. I started looking for one after that! Those are indeed, some very nice trucks. I knew another guy who had one, a '92, and he said he got 20 mpg. His was very clean, low miles. So one of those is now on my wish list.

 

[glfredrick]

Back to the actual OP discussion of the rusted cooling lines...

Mine also were rusted. My TB was originally from Pennsylvania -- good salt country. I've had to fix some stuff that was salt corroded under the hood -- mostly cosmetic -- but still a bit odd for the age of the vehicle.

My rusted lines cost me a transmission. They ruptured on the freeway and I lost all my oil -- and that was with an already weak transmission from heavy towing -- no margin of error left when it popped.

I'd check the lines on any TrailVoy machine just to be sure. Free to check, relatively cheap to replace if you do the job yourself (frustrating, but doable at home -- no special knowledge is required except the small $6 tool and the know how to pop the lines apart).

A thought about "junk" cars from the manufacturer... I guess I've lived too long and seen too much. Every once in a while a manufacturer makes a vehicle that is seemingly indistructable -- but that is rare. They want them to fail so that people buy a new one. The failure timing is always calculated by the engineers and built into the system. Keeping most vehicles alive past that point in time means that someone has typically done a lot of work and taken care of business on a timely basis.

Oh, and though the GM360 platform has its issues, so do others... Just ask Ford or Dodge owners about their transmissions that rarely, if ever, saw 70K miles. Especially the mid-sized and mini-van vehicles. Go back farther in time and try to find a Chevy Vega that made 100K miles, or a Corvair that didn't almost rust in half (same for Pinto, Maverick, Mustang, ANYTHING AMC, Dodge, etc.). On certain model cars, people used to carry the spare parts needed to get them running in the glove compartment. I still remember replacing ballast resistors on Dodge products... Just the nature of the game.

 

[bartonmd]

Back to the actual OP discussion of the rusted cooling lines...

Mine also were rusted. My TB was originally from Pennsylvania -- good salt country. I've had to fix some stuff that was salt corroded under the hood -- mostly cosmetic -- but still a bit odd for the age of the vehicle.

My rusted lines cost me a transmission. They ruptured on the freeway and I lost all my oil -- and that was with an already weak transmission from heavy towing -- no margin of error left when it popped.

I'd check the lines on any TrailVoy machine just to be sure. Free to check, relatively cheap to replace if you do the job yourself (frustrating, but doable at home -- no special knowledge is required except the small $6 tool and the know how to pop the lines apart).

A thought about "junk" cars from the manufacturer... I guess I've lived too long and seen too much. Every once in a while a manufacturer makes a vehicle that is seemingly indistructable -- but that is rare. They want them to fail so that people buy a new one. The failure timing is always calculated by the engineers and built into the system. Keeping most vehicles alive past that point in time means that someone has typically done a lot of work and taken care of business on a timely basis.

Oh, and though the GM360 platform has its issues, so do others... Just ask Ford or Dodge owners about their transmissions that rarely, if ever, saw 70K miles. Especially the mid-sized and mini-van vehicles. Go back farther in time and try to find a Chevy Vega that made 100K miles, or a Corvair that didn't almost rust in half (same for Pinto, Maverick, Mustang, ANYTHING AMC, Dodge, etc.). On certain model cars, people used to carry the spare parts needed to get them running in the glove compartment. I still remember replacing ballast resistors on Dodge products... Just the nature of the game.

As a matter of fact, I still carry all of the old-but-servicable hoses, belts, plugs, wires, cap/rotor, etc.; and a gallon of 50/50 coolant, a gallon of trans fluid, a gallon of oil, and a gallon of water (in bottles, so it's drinkable as well)... This is in addition to the tool kit and starter fluid, matches, JB-Waterweld (temp fix for holes in oil or trans pans, diffs, rad tanks, etc), a tire plug kit, and a small compressor, etc... along with the extraction stuff I carry, as well... Plus all the BS stuff... bug spray, ponchos, bungees, emergency blanket, heat packs, jumper cables, multitool, first aid kit, etc...

Mike

 

[glfredrick]

Your list is for off-road use. That old stuff was for highway use! Used to have to carry a spare set of points, condensor, fuses, fusible links, spare tire (for real -- you would use it!), etc. These days, for on-highway use, a cell phone and a credit card (and AAA membership) are mostly all that are needed for most folks.

 

[bartonmd]

AAA is expensive, so is a tow (or rather, the AAA that will tow you more than 5 miles for free is more expensive, and the $100 AAA only gets you 5 miles, then you have to pay for the tow, anyway)...

I keep that stuff in my LeSabre, except the extraction stuff is just a regular old tow strap (with loops)... If I'm broken down more than that, I call my dad or one of my buddies to pick up the trailer and come get me... AAMOF, I just took his trailer, and my TB to get my buddy an hour and a half away, when the trans in his '79 LeBaron lost a trans on the way back from drill weekend....

Yeah... as I tell my wife... "it's called being 'paranoid' until you need it, then it's called being 'prepared'"

Mike