Chevy TrailBlazer, TrailBlazer SS and GMC Envoy Forum banner

1 - 20 of 41 Posts

·
Registered
2003 chevy trailblazer_lt
Joined
·
26 Posts
Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
Ok, so I've been looking into a subwoofer for a while now but I just don't really feel like spending $600+ for a sub, amp, and new head unit, while leaving the other speakers as factory non-bose speakers. The sub I had picked out was Pioneer's TS-SW2501S2 or S4. I was going to do an install of it in the compartment area in the floor in the trunk so it was hidden. It said it had a frequency range of 20Hz-290Hz. But, now that I've looked at other regular door speakers I've noticed that Pioneer also sells 6.5" speakers that have a frequency range of around 30Hz-30kHz (models: TS-A1604C,TS-G1643R, TS-G671M, and TS-A1684R). I was wondering, since the frequency range is so low for these, would they hit the lows like a subwoofer would, but without a huge kick? or is there more to it than that? and also, if I go with any of these, would I need to upgrade the factory amp or install a new one? I'm looking for a more fuller sound from the speakers when turned up. When I turn the bass up to +6 with the factory speakers, the bass hits almost hard enough for me, but it fades in and out when the sound is up. I'm looking for something with a little more kick and better performance. I hope this is enough info for someone to answer. Oh yeah, I have a 2003 TB LT with non-bose, forgot to add this earlier.
 

·
Registered
2007 chevy trailblazer_lt
Joined
·
148 Posts
you have to take the frequencies a speakers says it will play with a grain of salt. s decent componet set, installed properly and fed the reccomended power is going to start straining at around the 50hz range if your lucky. most sets to really sound good with power will more then likely be closer to the 60-70 hz range. the diffrence between a componet set and a componet set with a sub is night and day. music just lacks impact without a sub. and this is coming from a sound quality guy. im no means a bass head. to keep costs low go with a 4 channel amp. most aftermarket speakers were designed to really come alive when fed the proper power. a good 4 channel amp can power a front componet set and bridge the rear two channels to push a single 10: sub. stick with the stock rear speakers and run those off of the headunits power. this will save on costs. then pick up a name brand head unit. it may cost you a little more. but the diffrence in sound is really night and day
 

·
Registered
2007 chevy trailblazer_lt
Joined
·
148 Posts
the maxx boost piece sounds like the same thing bose does to get there sound in such small speakers, never been a big fan of either myself. but if your happy with it. then it was money well spent.
 

·
Registered
2003 chevy trailblazer_lt
Joined
·
26 Posts
Discussion Starter #5
Thanks for the responses.

Patgrapevine, let me know how that turns out for you when you get it installed. It got me interested. If there's enough of a noticeable difference then I'll just go stock speakers with that.

And Sndsgood, the only thing I don't get about the amplifiers is that all of the 4-channel amps that seem powerful enough to put out 300-400 watts costs over $250. Could I get a mono-amp and run just the sub off of that while running the 4 speakers off of the head unit? Or would that be too much strain on the head unit? Could you give me a direction towards some good amps for my application? Also, I am definitely going with a double-din head unit because it looks better in my opinion, but is there a way to keep the 6-disc option with a new head unit or are they all single disc? Because I really like my 6-disc. And finally, would I need to build a completely enclosed box for the sub, or could I just make a top section that the sub is mounted to and use the bottom of the compartment as the rest of the box? I don't know if the carpet would ruin the sound or anything. I hope that makes sense.

This little "project" of mine has been going on for almost a year now, I just can't make up my damn mind on anything.
 

·
Registered
2008 gmc envoy_denali
Joined
·
437 Posts
You could run all 4 speakers off the deck, but they will sound noticeably better, cleaner, and louder off a separate 4 channel amp. I agree with whoever said change the front 2 speakers off 2 channels of a 4 channel amp, and run a sub off the other 2 channels bridged.

As for the headunit, most are single disc but I know some decks (such as the older Pioneer 6000) are 6 disc decks.

For the sub, the enclosure needs to be sealed up. Only way to get around that would be to run an "infinite baffle" type of sub which requires it to be mounted to a baffle and it uses the area behind the sub kind of like a box. You might be able to do something like this in the small cargo area in the trunk, but most people just turn it into a box.
 

·
Registered
2007 chevy trailblazer_lt
Joined
·
148 Posts
Thanks for the responses.

Patgrapevine, let me know how that turns out for you when you get it installed. It got me interested. If there's enough of a noticeable difference then I'll just go stock speakers with that.

And Sndsgood, the only thing I don't get about the amplifiers is that all of the 4-channel amps that seem powerful enough to put out 300-400 watts costs over $250. Could I get a mono-amp and run just the sub off of that while running the 4 speakers off of the head unit? Or would that be too much strain on the head unit? Could you give me a direction towards some good amps for my application? Also, I am definitely going with a double-din head unit because it looks better in my opinion, but is there a way to keep the 6-disc option with a new head unit or are they all single disc? Because I really like my 6-disc. And finally, would I need to build a completely enclosed box for the sub, or could I just make a top section that the sub is mounted to and use the bottom of the compartment as the rest of the box? I don't know if the carpet would ruin the sound or anything. I hope that makes sense.

This little "project" of mine has been going on for almost a year now, I just can't make up my damn mind on anything.


reason why higher power 4 channel amps cost over $250 is because of there design. usually and a/b whiche sucks up more power. allot of your mono amps now a days are class d amps class d amps work by turning the power supply on and off extremly fast so they put out the power but they consume allot less power to run making them allot more efficeint, the downside is a slight loss in sound quality but with bass speakers its not very noticeable if at all to most people. you can get a mono amp and run your speakers off the headunit but your going to notice your bass is going to drownd out your highs very quickly and unless your a basshead the sound is just not going to be what you want. add in the fact that most decent componet sets were designed to play best on an amp. componet speakers will really come alive on a dedicated amp versus the head units paltry built in power.


as for the box, freakout was righ. you could do what you suggested(free air) in a vehicle with a trunk but not in something like a trailblazer your best bet is to just go with a simple setup like a sealed or ported enclosure. sealed if you want the smallest box possible. ported if your willing to sacrifice some more space for a litle more bass. u can look around and find subs that require very little airspace.

as far as amps go depends on your price range really. any decent quality brand should work. brands like alpine, kicker, mtx, rockford are all decent gear. im looking at a boston acoustic 5 channel just to keep things simple and low budget in my trailblazer. other brands are zapco, arc audio,audison but those will problaby be more then your wanting to spend. just go with a quality name and not a cheap brand, you get what you pay for.

as far as headunits i know a few of the manufacturers still make cd changers but id problaby steer away from them. normally you'd mount them in the back so there not the most user friendly. if your looking around at doubel din's some options are usb inputs or sc imputs. my pioneer unit has both and i plan on just loading up one of my 16 gig sd cards full of music and keeping it in the headunit full time. so i'll always have access to dozens of cd's without ever having to change out discs.
 

·
Registered
2003 chevy trailblazer_lt
Joined
·
26 Posts
Discussion Starter #8 (Edited)
Ok thanks.

I would like to clarify that I meant like just using a piece of 1/4"-1/2" thick wood/something to mount the sub that covers the entire top opening of the compartment so it's as if it is enclosed. I've attached a crude image (not to scale at all) to explain it better. Would this work? I know it will be hard to make the wood mounting precisely fit the opening in the compartment to completely seal it off, but hey wood is the cheapest thing about this project and I'm not too worried about it. I would like to do it this way because then I could use the Pioneer 12" Shallow Mount, which wouldn't fit very well if I had to make a box with even like a 1/8" thick piece of wood for the bottom of the enclosure. It would be an extremely tight fit seeing as how the overall height of that sub is 4" and the overall height inside the compartment is 4-3/8" and I would like a little bit of room to be on the safe side if I put something heavy on top. Also, can you drill through the compartment? It's just plastic underneath the carpet not metal, right?

Now I understand the reason for the head unit just running the rear speakers, as I looked at the specs for most speakers and they run higher than the 50W that most head units put out per channel. And I just realized that looking for a 6-disc is pointless since I will have an mp3/ipod jack in the new head unit :duh:. I'm an idiot haha.
 

Attachments

·
Registered
2007 chevy trailblazer_lt
Joined
·
148 Posts
you need to have it sealed up. just setting a board i there would like end up with poor bass responce. best bet would be to do a fiberglass bott. the top piece to hold you sub should be 3/4" i dont see a way of making it small enough to fit under the cover or even dead flush with the cover without cutting corners like proper airspace or mounting. if you did a fiberglass tub that fit the well you could easily just put quick disconnects on the enclosure and just pull it out if you ever need to throw anything big back there.

its formed carpet and i personally havnt pulled my carpet yet (god i need to soon though my carpet is in bad condition) but im betting its a metal tub underneath.
 

·
Registered
2003 chevy trailblazer_lt
Joined
·
26 Posts
Discussion Starter #10 (Edited)
I did a drawing in Rhinoceros 4 (which is a CAD program) of the measurements on a box that would easily fit the compartment, and it came out to be .44 cubic ft of volume in the box (and this was being very conservative, I'm sure I could squeeze out another .05-.1 cubic ft if I wanted). This falls in the .35-.7 range for the pioneer 10" shallow sub with an overall height of 3.75" so I know the 10" could work, I was just hoping I could go with the 12" but I guess not (too much work).

Oh and also, if a 4-channel amp says it can do 300W bridged at 2-ohms and 150W x 2, will that power a sub with a nominal 300W power? Or is that that the MAX amount that the amp puts out and it will be too strained? Like, should I go with one that does 400+ to be on the safe side or is it ok to go with 300W bridged? Sorry about all the questions.

And has anyone had any experience with Boss amps? They have a 5-channel Chaos Epic amp that does RMS Power of 150W x 4 + 500W x 1 at 4 ohms and a max power of 250W x 4 + 1500W x 1 at 2 ohms. I found one for $170, which is much much cheaper than any other amp that I've seen with numbers like that, but this price seems scary low, that's why I'm asking.
 

·
Premium Member
2004 chevy trailblazer_ls_ext
Joined
·
140 Posts
Just my :m2: but stay away from Boss. I too was on a budget and went with some of their equipment and was very disappointed to say the least. For example, an amp I purchased for my subs was a 1500w max ( I know that those numbers mean nothing) but was rated at 600w rms by one channel @ 2ohm. I for one would like to know how they plan on getting 600w out of a single 25 amp fuse:confused: I knew very little about car audio and still consider myself a noob, but I also know what I've spent my money on and whether or not I was happy with the purchase. Boss and Soundstorm (Not Soundstream) are one in the same and in my opinion are flashy paper weights.

I've since upgraded a bit and went with something that was still not expensive but at least was CEA compliant (Hifonics Brutus BXi 2008d). Hifonics amps have proven to be good in my experiences...well for those who don't have the money for the higher end ones. For your application...what about this?
http://www.sonicelectronix.com/item_23553_Hifonics-Zeus-ZXi80.4.html
Compared to the Boss/SSL amps that "say" they do the same rated power (600w rms), the Hifonics has 2x30 amp fuses...once again, how does Boss/SSL plan on getting that amount of power through 1x25 amp fuse?

You really do get what you pay for. We all work hard for our money...don't waste it on low-end stuff like I did!!
 

·
Registered
2003 chevy trailblazer_lt
Joined
·
26 Posts
Discussion Starter #12 (Edited)
Thanks again. I hope you guys understand how much you have helped me out here.

http://www.sonicelectronix.com/item_34701_Boss-CE2505.html

It says that this boss amp has 3x30amp fuses. And with this amp I could hook up both a sub and 4 speakers for future applications in my next vehicles and such. But I am taking your advice about staying away from boss into consideration as I have with all the advice I have received so far. And the price is very low for something that claims to put out such high power, which puts me on edge. It also says it's not, 2006 CEA compliant, which also turns me away a little. Anyone else out there have any input on boss's performance and/or other brand amp performances? All feedback is welcome and appreciated.

I can't find any info about the amperage from any other site including boss's own site, so I'm gonna email them and ask. I'm gonna do more research on amps before I buy. From what I've read, the amp is the most important part of this.
 

·
Registered
2002 gmc envoy_slt
Joined
·
3,552 Posts
boss is crap, its cheap for a reason. cea means nothing. you get what you pay for.

maxxsonics, better name for themselves, its their bargin line:

http://www.amazon.com/Crunch-5000-5-5-Channel-Amplifier-P15000-5/dp/B003LUWFKE


edit: lol, look at the specs for the boss. 250 wrms x 4 ... biggest 4 channel i have ever seen is the sundown 200.4 that specs say 200 x 4 and its an $800 amp and as big as both back seats.

... never going to happen.


save your money, buy better stuff.
 

·
Registered
2003 chevy trailblazer_lt
Joined
·
26 Posts
Discussion Starter #14 (Edited)
Ok boss is out then haha. I heard Crunch wasn't very good... I think I'm going to go with maxxsonic's better line, Hifonics. Their stuff is more expensive, but I've heard nothing but good things about them and I can find most of their stuff for over 50-60% off. Plus, an amp will last a very long time if you don't push it too hard and don't go past the specs they give you for continuous use, right? The speakers will be the first thing to fail? If so then I'll go with an amp that's a little bit nicer and more expensive because I could use it in future car applications.
 

·
Registered
2002 gmc envoy_slt
Joined
·
3,552 Posts
crunch's 3k amps were the rage before audiopipe. they are still maxxsonics, so they need to keep up some kind of image/performance... there are worse things out there, like boss lol :D

im not quite sure if i am following your train of thought, but i dont know how you would push it too hard... maybe if you had too low of an impedance or your gain was set too high. but if it gets too hot it should go into protect, more or less if anything goes wrong you will blow the input and the whole amp wont work, cause fuses are not 100% and too low of voltage can also blow it.
 

·
Registered
2003 gmc envoy_sle
Joined
·
65 Posts
i'll just tell you about my experience with outting a sub in my envoy. first off, well worth it. it sounds great and hits well. (i have a cerwin vega mobil 12" powered by a deisle audio amp). secondly, if you are worried about audio quality of your stock speakers, worry no more. when i put in my deck (before i even had my sub) the sound quality was MUCH better. the old deck had been restricting the speakers a ton and made them wimpy, now they run great :) now after i put my sub in, i don't even have to turn the bass up , the sub does all the deep hard work while the car speakers act as tweeters if you will. this might be the best sounding system i have heard just because everything is even and there isn't any one thing that sounds drowned out or higher than anything else, and i don't even have the bose speakers. if i were you, i would go with a decent 12" or even a good 10". you will be very pleased :thumbsup:
 

·
Premium Member
2004 chevy trailblazer_ls_ext
Joined
·
140 Posts
smann,
If you do go for the Hifonics stuff, look at the HiFi line very closely. I've heard some pretty negative things about that line. I went with the Brutus, and the Zues seems to be pretty solid as well. Keep us posted once you buy something no matter what it may be!
 

·
Registered
2003 chevy trailblazer_lt
Joined
·
26 Posts
Discussion Starter #18 (Edited)
Sorry I've been kind of MIA. I went on a trip to Penn State to see some friends this weekend.

But while on the trip, I took some time to really listen to my music and I realized that the high and mid ranges for the stock speakers are just fine with me. It's not like I'm in love with them (and I know better speakers would sound better), but I don't see them as the problem for me. It's the bass that drones in and out instead of being smooth transitioning. I think I'm going to go with a nice mono/2-channel amp to power just the sub and have the stock speakers run off of the new head unit. I can turn the treble up and bass down on the speakers and fade them slightly to the front, so it's more of high/mid range noises in the front and the bass in the back from the sub. And I think I'm gonna go with a regular 10" sub and not a shallow one. My application for the shallow one just seems like too much work now and I've looked at other subs in the backs of trailblazers and it doesn't seem to take up too much room. If it turns out how swixman said, that the new head unit makes the stock speakers sound better, then that's gonna be great! And g33k, I was only looking at the Brutus and Zeus lines of Hifonics anyways haha.

But also, can a 4-channel amp have all 4 channels bridged together to power a sub? Or can you only bridge 2 channels together? Because it seems like the cheapest option would be to get a 4-channel with low outputs on each channel and bridge them all together, but all of the websites list 4-channels that are bridged as 2x2-channels, so I don't know if this could be done.

Here's what I was thinking...
Head Unit: Clarion CX501 or Pioneer FH-P8000BT
Subwoofer: Alpine SWR-1023D or JL 10W3V3
Amp: To Be Decided

I found all of these on different websites for over 60% off each, so these subs might seem like a little over kill for just wanting a little more smooth bass but it's worth it IMO.

The difference between the cheapest CX501 and CX201 I could find was only $3, so I think it's worth the extra $3 for the bluetooth compatibility and the ability to change the display colors on the CX501 :thumbsup:. I'm definitely doing a double din unit, single dins just aren't appealing to me. And I would go with the JL W6V6 over the W3V3 series but I'm trying to keep the mounting depths under about 6" so as to not take up too much room.

Also, I just thought of this: There are 3 Aux ports in the car (one in the front below the climate control, one on the back of the center console, and one in the very back of the truck on the right panel). Would these head units let me keep all of these functioning? Or is that controlled by something other than the head unit? Because I have used all of these in the past, so I'd like to keep it that way.

Let me know what you guys think! :)
 

·
Premium Member
2004 chevy trailblazer_ls_ext
Joined
·
140 Posts
If you're not going for "loud" then I'm thinking that an Alpine type R and 600w rms might be a bit much for you. I'm just thinking that if you keep the stock speakers, your bass will drown out the speakers a bit. What about something like this --> http://www.sonicelectronix.com/item_29091_Rockford-Fosgate-PS300-12-Missing-Top-Cover.html I'm sure it will give a good clean sound and by the time you spend over $100 on the sub, $100-250 on the amp, and materials to build the box (unless you go pre-fab), you'd spend more than that little rockford setup. I bet that little thing would rock! I used to have a P1 w/punch 250.2 amp pushing it and it was more than I needed at the time. Whole setup was underrated in my opinion.

Not trying to change your direction at all...if you're like me, I like to know all of my options before buying. That Alpine sub is not as effecient as the Rockford...meaning if you give them both the same amount of power, the rockford would perform better. The alpine is rated at 83db and the Rockford at 89db. That little setup may end up just as loud as the alpine setup for less money!

Just a :crazy: thought
 

·
Registered
2003 chevy trailblazer_lt
Joined
·
26 Posts
Discussion Starter #20 (Edited)
I go through phases. Sometimes I want it LOUD and other times I want it slightly louder, so I was kind of hoping to use a sub that would be able to do all of this haha. If I want it only slightly loud then I can turn off the bass boost on the head unit and turn the sub down, but some days I just want something that will hit hard (not too hard, if you know what I mean). My friend owns a 12" JL sub and I love his sound, but it's in the trunk of his cobalt so that dampens the sound a bit, so I can't really reference it since we have a wide open area in our TBs. I was also going to place the sub behind the rear seats facing the seats so it's a little bit muffled.

And I want to build my own box. I feel like half the fun of owning a sub is creating a custom box haha :D. And yeah I was thinking prefab. The carpeted ones I've seen never seem to be the right color.

I did some more research and found Rockford's P2D2-10 and Infinity's Kappa 100.9W. The Infinity seems to be a good choice in my opinion. I heard they were very good subs. I found one for $117. And the Rockford I found for $88. I didn't look too hard though right now for good prices so I'm sure I can find slightly better.

I'm looking at all my choices and wondering what other people think before I buy.

And I understand what you mean by the efficiency. I didn't look at that before. I made an Excel sheet in the beginning of this journey with subs, amps, head units, and speakers to compare all of the ones I found along the way. Guess I need to add a column for that.

Oh and also I need to ask, a lot of these subs are dual voice coils with 2+2 ohms. Do I still look at the 2 ohm rating for the amps? Or do I need to look at the 4 ohm rating?
Like if an amp puts out an RMS power of 300W at 2 ohms and I have a 2+2 ohm sub with an RMS power rating of 300W, will this be enough? Or do I look at the RMS power rating for 4 ohms on the amp which is like 150W for example?
 
1 - 20 of 41 Posts
Top