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Roadiemobile a sagwagon no more!

10K views 43 replies 18 participants last post by  hatchet669 
#1 · (Edited)
So for over a year, I've noticed front sagging. Too chicken to measure it because all it was going to do was cost me money to fix, and I was really, really hoping for the long-wished-for Icon Dynamics coilovers. We might still get those, but I was currently desperate. Hitting things I used to drive over with impunity.

So given that the Roadiemobile runs with an EXT rear axle now, I just guessed that EXT front springs would give it a boost. My springs were well abused by the heavier custom bumper and winch, and I assumed they were taking a permanent set like my pre-Z71 Tahoe springs.

So I found a pair of EXT struts, but the junkyard couldn't give me any part numbers, so I could assure it was in the high end of the range. The donor vehicle ended up being a 2WD Envoy XL, so they're not the stiffest, but they worked like a charm!

While I was in there, I also added markmc's 1/2" shim spacers, and I believe this is the first install of those on a BDS spacer-equipped strut. Mark, you can sell those separately now, perhaps with a notch to support the BDS third bolt.

Final tally - started with 33 1/2" :sadcry: ground to wheelwell opening distance - ended up with 36 1/2". :excited: :woohoo:

EXT springs, plus Mark's spacers, plus BDS, combine the tallest strut with the least amount of sag possible for SWB trucks. The stiffest possible EXT springs would be the best, other than custom springs, but it's very difficult to guarantee you're getting the stiffest possible ones from junkyards. Getting the exact part number for buying new ones is a current project elsewhere.

The project:

Getting the junkyard springs off their struts



Tried the $40 Harbor Freight tool. Worked OK at first.



Ended up starting to BEND! Abandoned it with horror and went back to my previous compression tool.



Drilled out the upper mount holes to make it easier to put them in. I should have done this two upgrades ago.



Mark's 1/2" spacer on top of the BDS assembly. Note where you have to notch if you want to use the BDS third bolt. I don't, so I left it alone.



After assembly, the BDS threaded studs JUST make it with full engagement. This is the only real worry I had about adding Mark's spacers. Now this question is answered - everybody go out and buy them - and get another 3/4" lift!



The EXT spring is slightly larger diameter, and combined with the longer strut after Mark's spacer, the spring now touches the steering knuckle at full extension. Not a worry, since at normal ride height, there's a space. It might make noise offroading at full extension. Like I care? :no:



Top of the BDS spacer showing Mark's shim in the third bolt hole, lined up with the top mounting hole. Mark's shim can't be made any larger diameter, though, because it will then hit the inside of the upper mount and not sit flat. It's at the right diameter now.



My OEM springs that sagged and I removed: part no. 15125883



While I was in there I slapped in some brake pads. Almost 80K miles on the OEMs.



My favorite screw tool to push back the pistons. I opened the bleed valve while doing this so I didn't force dirty fluid back upstream past the ABS valves and seals.

 
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#6 ·
Still there. I can't imagine running without them. Not safe. Blow out the shock internals.

Now you have to buy Mark's 1/2" shims and get another 3/4" lift. (Since I know you have BDS. :yes:) At least we don't have to compress the springs to do that.
 
#8 ·
Still there. I can't imagine running without them. Not safe. Blow out the shock internals.
Yea, I did a double take today when I noticed them - argh :(

the roadie said:
Now you have to buy Mark's 1/2" shims and get another 3/4" lift. (Since I know you have BDS. :yes:) At least we don't have to compress the springs to do that.
I have my fingers crossed for some other goodies down the road. Maybe some fancy bump stops too. :cool:
 
#14 ·
I'm amazed how much those harbor freight spring compressors deformed! AGH!...

I think you're missing a number off your springs Bill. 1512588X. Is it a grey background on the tag? If so, I'm guessing a 3. Is that your stock spring? No tags on the new ones?

What was the free height difference between the sagged springs and the new ones? And side by side pics to show the deformation?

We had an issue with that on a design project I worked on a while back. It was a spring-only actuated intake valve (no cam) on a 2 stroke. The spring, however, was not spec'd out right and after the engine ran for about 5 minutes, the engine would always backfire up the intake. We couldn't figure out what the issue was until we compared the free length of the springs.

Looking good! :thumbsup:
 
#15 ·
Just for your reference, my trailblazer ext's stock spring is right up against the steering knuckle (within a fraction on an inch). Didn't know if it matters to you but I figured it might make you feel a lil better. After adding the liftmeister lift it was moved a little bit closer due to the diameter of the spring in that area changing to the lower position.
 
#18 ·
Nicely done Roadie, as always. I haven't been doing any upgrades recently, but I'm working on some new thoughts for the TB.. still lifted of course, just adding some more to it. while I'm thinking about it.. what year did we get the avalanche springs from? I should know this. :coffee I'm thinking of adding some new shocks in the rear. Don't want to get ones that are too short for the full articulation.
 
#22 ·
.. what year did we get the avalanche springs from? I should know this.
... har. Yes you should. Or use search. :D 2007+ is the answer. I'm using BDS longer shocks, to match their kit, even though I could probably go 2" longer. Rear articulation is not as critical when you have the G80.

I am kind of surprised no one has thought of the EXT springs possible difference considering all the Mod and such the Trailvoy braintrust works on!
Well, yeah. We missed this possibility early on until Zibby alerted us to the massive list of springs the evil GM design team came up with. And even THEN it took over a year to get through my thick skull that the EXT rear axle is a nice, cheap upgrade, and THEN I finally put two and two together and ordered up some cheap junkyard EXT struts as an experiment.

Just for your reference, my trailblazer ext's stock spring is right up against the steering knuckle
Appreciate the report.

I think you're missing a number off your springs Bill. 1512588X. Is it a grey background on the tag? If so, I'm guessing a 3. Is that your stock spring? No tags on the new ones?
It's a three. I edited my original post. Sorry. That's the stock, and the EXT replacements were tagless. Sigh.
What was the free height difference between the sagged springs and the new ones?
I was waiting for you to ask, but I hoped to have some suppositions before I answered. Now you can take the lead in this investigation. The free length was the same!

My sagged OEM rears had been driven to solid (coils touching coils) for 200 miles or so in the 2007 Sierra/Death Valley expedition, until I got new Airlift bags installed. Those took a permanent 1.5-2" set. I assumed my fronts had done the same thing, but they hadn't. The design of the strut also means you can't go solid on the coils without destroying the shock.

So I can't explain it. How can the spring be permanently weakened without taking a set? Oh, I wish I had slowed down to fabricate a way to check the spring rate of the new ones, but I didn't. If somebody has a lab with a press and load cell, I'll ship one out.
 
#33 ·
Roadie, everytime I look at your envoy it makes me wish I had a 4x4, but unfortunately I don't.

but when are you gonna take the plunge and do the solid axle swap? that would be friggin sweet.
 
#34 ·
Maybe the 5th generation Roadiemobile will be SAS. It can't be my daily driver for that to happen. I tend to keep vehicles for 8-12 years and 150K+ miles, but almost never demote them to a secondary car. I always find a family member (or daughter) who needs a hand-me-down more.

That said, I do have a vague plan for the Roadiemobile's evolution, and it makes no sense to have it too evolved beyond where my driving skills are. Also, a BIG consideration is that if I'm built too much, I have to find all new friends to wheel with - folks without trailvoys. As it is, Teebes can keep up. (Actually, I am now barely keeping up with him since he leapfrogged me, the bum!!)

1st gen: Stock with running boards. What a noob! Got lost in the desert in rainy season and ended up stuck in the "Borrego Sink". Vowed "never again!"



2nd gen (at about 15K miles): Early adopter of SuspensionMAXX spacer lift. Upgraded to 31" Wrangler Silent Armor AT. Got stuck going up Coyote Canyon in Borrego desert. Vowed "I'll be back" and shook my fist at the trail.



3rd gen (about 50K miles): Early adopter of BDS lift. 32" Procomp Xtreme MT and some armor and custom bumper and rock sliders and a couple other things. :cool: Can now walk up Coyote Canyon with no drama. Did the easier 1/3 of the world-famous Rubicon Trail with Teebes on 33's. Shook my fist at the difficult part of the Rubicon and vowed "You denied me now - wait until I come back!"



3.5 gen (currently at 75K miles): Upgraded rear axle and front springs to EXT.



Proposed: 4th gen (maybe 80-85K miles): Add markmc body lift. 35's. Somebody's coilovers (Icon Dynamics or somebody else), gas tank skid plate - upgrade all other armor to steel. Possible 4.10 or 4.56 gear swap. Now worthy to challenge ALL of the Rubicon.

Possible 5th gen: SAS, rear axle swap, 4.56 gears, transfer case with 4.0-to-1 LO ratio.

There are also YEARS worth of insanely scenic trails to drive out here in my current condition. I'm in no hurry. Except the typical self-induced pressure to remember I'm 57 years old, and not 27. :D
 
#37 ·
There are also YEARS worth of insanely scenic trails to drive out here in my current condition. I'm in no hurry. Except the typical self-induced pressure to remember I'm 57 years old, and not 27. :D
:iagree: I feel your pain at 58. So many opportunities. Not enough time.
 
#35 ·
good stuff roadie, ive been wanting to do this but wasnt sure how it would work out... go figure my parents own an EXT envoy and there front end is taller than mine but my rear is lower to than my parents... measured and visaully off weird(maybe ive just beat on it a lil more, or the owner before did).... i always get jealous looking at the roadiemobile
 
#38 ·
I like your progression, and also the fact that you are "real world" aware of your limitations and have plans to deal with them.

I am wondering about the capacity of the stock axles to sling 35" tires without breaking, however. I have real doubts... I wheel with tons of other guys in all sorts of vehicles, and one of the sounds I've come to know well is that clink/snick/pop sound of an axle becoming a decoration for the garage wall. I've watched as countless Dana 30/35 axles have bit the dust in Jeeps of every stripe, and more recently, the Dana 44 doing likewise, even with Moly axle shafts.

Now, if you could get Mr. Longfield to harden you up a set of axle shafts (and front joints) you could probably pull off 35s. Otherwise, I'd probably stick to 33s with 4.46 gearing.

http://www.longfieldsuperaxles.com/
 
#39 ·
I am wondering about the capacity of the stock axles to sling 35" tires without breaking, however.
Me, too. I was arguing against them for years even being on people's fantasy lists. I also decided long ago to skip the 2" BDS body lift, and that locked me out of 34-35's. I've changed my mind with Mark's 3" body lift coming out. With 35's, all sorts of other parts enter the danger zone for being discovered as the next weakest part.

But somebody has to be the pathfinder. And I'm pretty sure that I will choose trails that aren't so extreme that I need all the torque the engine can put out to get up them. I'm still doing this for the scenery and not just for crawling rocks. If anything, the real purpose for 35's would be for more ground clearance to protect the gas tank. My inspiration, 4 Wheel magazine's Trail-Lex, had a metal tank, and took a 4-gallon reduction in capacity on one hit on the Rubicon. Our tank can't do that.

Now the front locker problem - I'm still convinced having one is a bad idea due to the CV weakness and the aluminum diff housings that break so often on the pre-Alpha H3's. And the trails I choose don't seem to need one. I can do 45+ degree slickrock climbs when all 4 wheels are on the surface, and lumpy trails when you only have two wheels for traction, but I know I'll never do 45 degree lumpy trails and that's OK. :yes:
 
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