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2002 olds bravada
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Discussion Starter #1
After 143,000 miles, my engine was starting to use oil, the oil was getting darker than it ever had, and it had that diesel ticking sound. Since I really like this truck and can't afford what it offers in a newer one, I decided to do some searching here and find out about swapping engines. In my case a swap with another '02 with all its problems didn't seem to make much sense. Not to mention that it is hard to find an engine that old without tons of miles on it. I hired a mechanic that was willing to take it on, and found an '06 engine with less than 30K miles on it. The book says this swap should take 21.5 hours, and the mechanic stated that this is undoubtedly the most difficult swap he's ever done.:worried:There is a myriad of attachments. As you'll see by the pictures, the old engine is out. It didn't come easily. He made a bracket for hoisting it out, but even so it was difficult. He fabricated another bracket for sliding the new one in that is a newer design, and should work better.

We are using the PCM from the '02, and installing a new '02 oxygen sensor. The new engine doesn't come with coils, and the '02 coils won't fit. He was able to order new GM coils for just a little more than salvage yard cost. He plans to use the '06 oil pan, and shunt the sensor plug on the '02 wiring harness. We are currenty concerned about the coil wire plugs not fitting the new '06 coils, but will rewire where necessary.

This engine should be in by the end of the week, and I'll keep posting any other hints in case anyone else is thinking of taking on such a task.





http://www.flickr.com/photos/dennysemn/4285966731/in/photostream/





 

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Going to need to flash the 02 PCM with an 04 or 05 operating system if you want the AIR stuff to work (I would recommend chucking the AIR pump off the 06 into the trash or on eBay and using the block off plate off your 02 motor and be done with it).

Good job on the swap, knew it was going to be a hard swap but you're going to get a more powerful engine out of it with the revised head design (hence the new ignition coils).

If I ever lose the engine on my 02 it'll be getting an 06 motor for sure.:thumbsup:
 

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non_gmt360 other
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Good luck.

I'm in for the first real A to B comparison of a 2002-2005 engine to a 2006 engine. I'm betting that the power increase will be substantial.
 

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2002 olds bravada
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Discussion Starter #4
using the block off plate off your 02 motor and be done with it).
Eric,
Thanks for your comments. Referring to your quote above, there was no air pump on the '06 engine, and the block-off plate on it verified this. Perhaps the air pump is for California bound engines?

The new(er) engine is in and looking handsome. It will hopefully be running this time tomorrow. The concern about the wiring plugs matching up with the '06 coils was unwarranted. They didn't look like they would fit, but they did.:thumbsup:

Limequat, thanks for your comments, too. The increased horsepower is a side benefit that will be welcomed.
 

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Hmm, all I6s made since 04 have an AIR pump regardless of location. Standard emissions control system for GM on our engine.

Have a pic of the new motor? Is it metal or composite around the oil fill on the front of the engine?
 

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Discussion Starter #7 (Edited)
Hmm, all I6s made since 04 have an AIR pump regardless of location. Standard emissions control system for GM on our engine.

Have a pic of the new motor? Is it metal or composite around the oil fill on the front of the engine?
Erik,
This is a blurry picture, but if you look closely directly above the oxygen sensor of each engine, just above the exhaust manifold, you'll notice a plate on each. My mechanic said he thought this was where the air pump's would go.

 

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2002 olds bravada
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Discussion Starter #8
I apologise for not having the pictures work. I'm still learning how to do this. Let's see if they'll appear here.

This first picture shows the '06 engine I bought with about 26,000 miles on it for about $900. It shows the newer hoisting bracket my mechanic fabricated to slide it into the truck.


There was no temp. sensor hole at this location on the '06. So a hole was drilled and soon to be tapped...



Left side of engines showing both hoisting brackets. Oil on side of old engine is from a filled breather hose.








Denny
 

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Computer question

Does the newer style 06 crank have the same number of notches on the reluctor ring as the 02 so that you can use the 02 PCM ?
 

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Discussion Starter #10 (Edited)
Yes, it must have the same number of notches on the reluctor ring. The '06 engine is in and running very smoothly. There was NO rewire necessary using the '02 wiring harness on the '06 engine. Even with the new-for-2006 ignition coils, the wiring harness worked! I'm also noticing the improved throttle mapping that was added in the 2005 model year, as there is less hesitation when "flooring it", or kick-down. But the most noticeable benefit is the smoothness of the automatic transmission in accepting the engine's power, as well as the engine power itself. I haven't pulled anything yet, but I can feel being pushed back further in my seat upon acceleration, and that's a great feeling!:woohoo:
 

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2005 chevy trailblazer_ls
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not trying to thread jack the op but can anyone shed some light on the differences in the 05-06 engines? I have an 05 with the 4.2 i6 and wasnt aware of there being a different motor in 05.
 

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Thanks, that news saves me getting another computer. I intend to use my 04 intake, return style fuel rail, and earlier wiring, sensors etc.
 

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2002 chevy trailblazer_ltz
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Thanks, that news saves me getting another computer. I intend to use my 04 intake, return style fuel rail, and earlier wiring, sensors etc.
Wow not to hijack this but I've never seen someone on a forum from Dexter, NY. I lived there for quit a few years. I lived in the "haunted house" out on Pillar Point.
 

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2002 olds bravada
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Discussion Starter #14
not trying to thread jack the op but can anyone shed some light on the differences in the 05-06 engines? I have an 05 with the 4.2 i6 and wasnt aware of there being a different motor in 05.
Okay here is what I found on a different forum, but may be posted elsewhere here as well. It's quite lengthy, so I may post it in two separate pieces.
Vortec 4200 4.2L I-6 (LL8)

2005 Model Year Summary

· Application in 2005 Saab 9-7X
· Improved cam phaser
· Returnless fuel injection
· Improved compression rings
· Improved intake manifold and throttle body gaskets
· Improved ORVR purge valve
· Vented starter solenoid
· Improved throttle mapping
· NVH enhancements
· GF-4 engine oil


FULL DESCRIPTIONS OF NEW OR CHANGED FEATURES

APPLICATION IN SAAB 9-7X
GM Powertrain’s 4.2L inline six-cylinder (RPO LL8) will power Saab’s first sport-utility vehicle, the 2005 Saab 9-7X. LL8’s built for this application are identical to those powering GM’s mid-size SUVs. The Saab 9-7X was designed to be capable of higher lateral and braking g loads and a higher top speed than the typical SUV, potentially creating additional demands on the engine’s lubrication and cooling system. The LL8 was validated for these higher demands with no modifications.


IMPROVED CAM PHASER
The Vortec 4200 is now equipped with a vane-type cam phaser, replacing the helical spline and piston phaser used since the engine’s launch. The vane phaser represents the current state-of-the-art in cam phaser and it delivers several benefits.

The Vortec 4200 was one of the world’s first truck engines with variable valve timing, or cam phasing. The cam phaser changes exhaust cam lobe timing relative to the cam-drive sprocket, which in turn varies exhaust valve timing on the fly, maximizing engine performance for given demands and conditions. At idle, for example, the exhaust cam is at the full advanced position for minimum intake-valve overlap. That allows exceptionally smooth idling. Under other operating demands, the phaser adjusts to deliver optimal exhaust-valve timing for performance, drivability and fuel economy. The result is linear delivery of torque, with near-peak levels over a broad rpm range, and high specific output (horsepower per liter of displacement) without sacrificing overall engine response, or drivability. Because it manages valve overlap at optimum levels, cam phasing also eliminates the need for an Exhaust Gas Recirculation (EGR) system.

As it was with the spline-piston phaser, the new vane phaser is actuated by hydraulic pressure from engine oil, and managed by a solenoid that is set to a specified duty-cycle and controls oil pressure on the phaser. Yet the operating mechanism is different. Instead of helical spline and piston, the vane phaser uses a wheel with four vanes (like a propeller) to turn the camshaft relative to the cam-sprocket. The solenoid directs oil to pressure points on either side of the four vanes; the vanes, and camshaft, turn in the direction of the oil flow. The more pressure, the more the phaser and camshaft turn. Like the previous phaser, the vane phaser turns the Vortec 4200’s camshaft a maximum 24 degrees relative to the sprocket.

The vane phaser is a much simpler device than the spline-piston phaser, with fewer parts. The vane wheel is made of extruded aluminum; it requires less machining and it’s less expensive to manufacture. Moreover, the vane phaser is more robust. It’s validated to ten years or 150,000 miles of operation. It is less sensitive to disruption from excessive debris in the oil.

Most important, the vane phaser performs more quickly and efficiently than the spline-piston phaser. Because it generates less friction, in turns the camshaft faster—in some conditions, as when the engine is warm and operating at low rpm, nearly four times faster. This improved response time will be transparent to the driver, but it improves the Vortec 4200’s overall efficiency and reduces compromises when balancing performance, drivability, fuel efficiency and emissions reduction. More precise control gives engineers more options in calibrating the cam phaser to maximize its benefits.

RETURNLESS FUEL INJECTION
All Vortec 4200s are equipped with a new "returnless" fuel injection system that eliminates fuel return lines between the engine and the gasoline tank. The new fuel system is also known as a demand system.

Before model year 2005, the Vortec 4200’s Sequential Fuel Injection (SFI) used a return line to manage fuel pressure by bleeding off excess fuel at the fuel rail and returning the excess to the fuel tank. The new system eliminates the return lines and moves the fuel-pressure regulator from the fuel rail on the engine to the fuel tank. But because the returnless system delivers only the amount of fuel needed by the injectors, and returns no fuel to the fuel tank, it eliminates heat transfer from the engine to the fuel tank. This reduces the amount of vapor generated in the tank, and captured by the evaporative emissions control system, or Onboard Refueling Vapor Recovery (ORVR).

In concert with improved intake manifold and throttle body gaskets (below), returnless fuel injection allows the Vortec 4200 to meet near-zero evaporative emissions standards mandated by the Environmental Protection Agency and California Air Resources Board for implementation in 2007.

IMPROVED COMPRESSION RINGS
The Vortec 4200's second piston ring has been redesigned. This new, improved Napier-type compression ring increases in thickness from 1.2 to 1.5 mm, and it has a step in its edge. The new compression ring is more durable and ensures consistent performance over the engine's life. It also improves oil consumption at higher mileage.

IMPROVED INTAKE MANIFOLD AND THROTTLE BODY GASKETS
The Vortec 4200 has new intake manifold sealing gaskets manufactured from a fluorocarbon material.. They are common with those used on the Vortec 3500 and Vortec 2800 inline engine, increasing assembly plant efficiency.

IMPROVED ORVR PURGE VALVE
Improvements to the Vortec 4200’s evaporative emissions system (ORVR) include a new purge valve. The purge valve empties the collection canister into the engine’s intake stream. The new valve also operates more quietly.

VENTED STARTER SOLENOID
The Vortec 4200 is fitted with a new vented starter solenoid. The solenoid case has a micromesh-covered vent that protects the solenoid from debris particles but prevents moisture buildup. When the engine is warm, any moisture on the solenoid evaporates through the vent.

IMPROVED THROTTLE MAPPING
The Vortec 4200’s Electronic Throttle Control (ETC) system is programmed with a new throttle progression intended to deliver more immediate engine response at part throttle.

The Vortec 4200 was one of the first truck engines with electronic “drive-by-wire” throttle. There is no mechanical link between the accelerator pedal and the throttle. A potentiometer at the pedal measures pedal angle and sends a signal to the Powertrain Control Module (PCM); the PCM – via the Throttle Actuator Control (TAC) module – then directs an electric motor to open the throttle at the appropriate rate and angle. Besides the accelerator pedal’s angle, the PCM measures other data, including the transmission’s shift patterns and traction at the drive wheels, in determining how far to open the throttle.

The refinements in the throttle mapping focus on part-throttle application. At full throttle the Vortec 4200’s performance does not change. Yet at part throttle, the response is more immediate to the driver. With a 25-percent application of the gas pedal, for example, the throttle might open 10 percent farther than it did with the previous map, and the vehicle will accelerate more quickly.

NVH ENHANCEMENTS
The Vortec 4200 gets several subtle improvements that make one of the smoothest, quietest six-cylinder truck engines in production even quieter. These include a new, denser insulating pad on the engine side of the dashboard and thicker downpipe that reduces the transmission of exhaust noise. The stainless steel down pipe connects the exhaust manifold with the catalytic converter.

GF-4 ENGINE OIL
All Vortec 4200s will be shipped to the customers with new engine oil that reduces engine deposits, extends oil change intervals, improves fuel economy and improves the life of emissions control systems. GM Powertrain has taken a leading role in developing and introducing the new oil, designated GF-4 (for “Gasoline Fueled, Standard 4’’) by the American Petroleum Institute.

This new oil improves fuel economy by lowering engine friction. It uses an ash-free anti-oxidant that prolongs the life of the emissions control system and it also resists oil breakdown caused by high-temperature oxidation. 5W30 oil is recommended for low friction and good cold-weather starts.
 

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Discussion Starter #15
VORTEC 4200 4.2L I-6 (LL8)
2006 model year summary
• Increased horsepower and torque outputs
• Higher 10.3:1 compression ratio
• Improved air flow
• Mass air flow sensor
• Improved A.I.R. system
• Improved ignition coils
• Piston rod squirters
Full descriptions of new or changed features
Increased horsepower and torque
The Vortec 4200, already noted for providing peak power and torque emulating that of
competitors’ larger-displacement V-8s, delivers 16 more horsepower for 2006. Its new
rating is 291 hp and 277 lb.-ft. of torque. The power increase resulted from a higher
compression ratio and improved engine breathing. GM Powertrain’s participation in the
new SAE test certification procedure provides more accurate readings of in-vehicle
performance by using more exact measures of exhaust backpressure and also
accounting for loads put on the engine by the accessory drive.
Increased compression ratio
The Vortec 4200’s compression ratio increased to 10.3:1 as a result of changes to its
piston profile, which lowered the volume in the combustion chamber. Even with its higher
compression ratio, the engine continues to maximize fuel economy by allowing
customers to use regular or unleaded fuel.
Improved air flow
Improved performance also results from increased airflow into and through the engine. A
larger (38.7 mm) intake valve and larger (33.5 mm) exhaust valve allow more air to flow through, and the camshaft also provides more lift to allow the valves to stay open longer.
Mass air flow sensor
A mass air flow system helps reduce emissions, allowing the Vortec 4200 to meet
California LEV II emissions requirements while also improving its fuel economy.
The mass air flow (MAF) sensor (replacing a previous speed density fuel control system)
more accurately measures air flow into the engine, eliminating variability in a number of
conditions including changes in altitude and temperature, and allows more precise fuel
and spark response.
The MAF is lightweight and has a modular design, using an integrated intake air
temperature sensor. The electronics, located in the center of the sensor’s flow tube, are
air cooled by the intake air. The output calibration is precisely programmed into the
module.
A.I.R. system
The Air Injection Reaction (A.I.R) System, which pumps air into the port of each cylinder
head, has also been upgraded to assist in reducing emissions. During the casting
process, the A.I.R. port is now cast right into the cylinder head for improved air flow.
Ignition coils
The ignition system uses more compact coils, which also provide better reliability/
durability and make better use of its energy. Their more compact size saves an entire
coil’s worth of weight. Enhanced durability has been proven from the coils’ use in other
Gen III engines.
Piston rod oil squirters
The piston, inside the cylinder bore of the engine block, transfers energy through the
connecting rod to the crankshaft. For improved durability and quietness the piston rod is
now drilled with a tiny (less than 1/8th mm) hole, which allows oil to be sprayed on the
cylinder wall, providing a cushioning layer on the sides of the piston which rides on the
film of oil.
The oil is originally pumped into the crankshaft, whose journals have cross-drilled holes.
As the crankshaft rotates, pumping oil through the journals, the oil is fed from the
journals through the piston rod bearing into the piston rod itself. Its open orifice then
allows the oil to be sprayed into the cylinder wall.
 

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I was not aware of that. My 05 is a late year model, so I'm wondering if it may have the 06 engine in it because mine has better throttle response and seams more torquier(sp) and to have better towing capabilities than a friends 05 with less miles than mine.
 

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2002 olds bravada
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Discussion Starter #17
Yes, isn't this forum a great place to learn? It was a pleasure to pass on what I've been reading over and over since finding it. Earlier, I had it printed out for the mechanic that did the swap so he could read it too.

The curious thing about the purchase of the swap engine (LL8) was that Hollander(sp?) says '06 and '07 engines are compatible, and '02 -'05 engines are not compatible with the '06. Both are incorrect in my experience. In other words, '02-'06 are compatible, and the '07 up are compatible. I had a hard time convincing the salvage yard owner to let me have an '06 engine that he knew would not work in an '02 truck.

The only issue of using the '06 engine would be the requirement of the '06 ignition coils. I did quite a bit of research before taking on this swap, but this one expense I knew nothing about. My mechanic told me the old coils would not work on the new engine because the coil recesses would not accomodate the newer style coils.

Denny
 

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I was not aware of that. My 05 is a late year model, so I'm wondering if it may have the 06 engine in it because mine has better throttle response and seams more torquier(sp) and to have better towing capabilities than a friends 05 with less miles than mine.
Pop your hood, if you have a MAF then you have one of the lucky late 05 builds with the 06 engine. Seen a few around here like that, GM must have run out of regular 05 motors and decided to just use the new 06 motor rather than build more old-style engines.
 

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Can you tell by the numbers?

My motor is brand new out of the crate and it appears to have a date of May 06 and it has the no return rail, big exhaust ports, metal cam cover, so I know its a later motor. Are there serial numbers on the motor that tell you? It's got numbers all over it.

PS is that you cable guy?
 

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Man thats the best mod i ever seen for us LL8s!! :hail:

Maybe I should do the same as my last mod...:coffee
 
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