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this was on another forum of mine so i thought i would pass it on for our dearest oregoners...





The gasoline tax has long been the method of choice for raising money for public road upkeep, but more fuel efficient cars are slowly eroding funds from the public coffers. Oregon Governor Ted Kulongoski wants to keep road repair money flowing, so he's proposing the dreaded mileage tax. Opponents of the idea see a GPS-based solution as being an invasion of privacy, giving the government the ability to track where tax-payers go. However, the proposed system in Oregon doesn't track any travel points. Mileage is instead read whenever drivers fuel up, and a 1.2 cent per mile tax is levied. The program was tested in 2006 and 2007 with 300 motorists participating in the experiment.

Someone driving 12,000 miles per year would pay $144 in mileage tax. For comparison's sake, a 25 mpg vehicle driving 12,000 miles would pay $115 based on Oregon's current 0.24 cent per gallon tax. Kulongoski has no power to enforce a mileage tax, so he's relying on the Oregon legislature to make the tax law. Since it will take time to get all vehicles on the road equipped with a GPS device, the standard gas tax would remain in effect for the foreseeable future, with a possible two cent increase. Commuters equipped with a GPS system would receive a refund for gas taxes paid.

http://www.autoblog.com/2008/12/31/o...d-mileage-tax/





Kulongoski to pursue mileage tax
By Hasso Hering
Albany Democrat-Herald

A year ago, the Oregon Department of Transportation announced it had demonstrated that a new way to pay for roads — via a mileage tax and satellite technology — could work.

Now Gov. Ted Kulongoski says he’d like the legislature to take the next step.

As part of a transportation-related bill he has filed for the 2009 legislative session, the governor says he plans to recommend “a path to transition away from the gas tax as the central funding source for transportation.”

What that means is explained on the governor’s website:

“As Oregonians drive less and demand more fuel-efficient vehicles, it is increasingly important that the state find a new way, other than the gas tax, to finance our transportation system.”

According to the policies he has outlined online, Kulongoski proposes to continue the work of the special task force that came up with and tested the idea of a mileage tax to replace the gas tax.

The governor wants the task force “to partner with auto manufacturers to refine technology that would enable Oregonians to pay for the transportation system based on how many miles they drive.”

The online outline adds: “The governor is committed to ensuring that rural Oregon is not adversely affected and that privacy concerns are addressed.”

When the task force’s study and test were in the news in 2006 and 2007, critics worried that the technology could be used to track where vehicles go, not just how far they travel, and that this information would somehow be stored by the government.

In more than one interview with the Democrat-Herald and others, James Whitty, the ODOT official in charge of the project, tried to assure the public that tracking people’s travels was not in the plans.

The task force’s final report came out in November 2007. It was based largely on a field test in which about 300 motorists in the Portland area and two service stations took part over

10 months, ending in March 2007.

A GPS-based system kept track of the in-state mileage driven by the volunteers. When they bought fuel, a device in their vehicles was read, and they paid 1.2 cents a mile and got a refund of the state gas tax of 24 cents a gallon.

The final report detailed the technical aspects of the program. It also stressed the issue of privacy.

“The concept requires no transmission of vehicle travel locations, either in real time or of travel history,” the report said. “Accordingly, no travel location points are stored within the vehicle or transmitted elsewhere. Thus there can be no ‘tracking’ of vehicle movements.”

Also, the report said, under the Oregon concept of the program, “ODOT would have no involvement in developing the on-vehicle devices, installing them in vehicles, maintaining them or having any other access to them except, perhaps, in situations involving tampering or similar fee evasion activities.”

Equipment for the Oregon test was developed at Oregon State University.

Whitty said last year it might take about $20 million to establish that the mileage tax is commercially viable. Eventually, GPS devices would have to start being built into cars, and fueling stations would have to be similarly equipped.

The gas tax would stay in force — Kulongoski has proposed that it be raised 2 cents — for vehicles not equipped to pay the mileage tax.



http://www.gazettetimes.com/articles...aaa02_road.txt
 

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!!!!! :crazy: i see it as an invasion of privacy .. they have no need to know how many miles I drive .. and to say they wont track you .. yeah right ..
 

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This is so typical. First the Libtards all demand we drive fuel efficient vehicles and cut back on our driving and many people do it. So gee guess what happens? We use less fuel so the government gets less tax money. Well we can't have mother government forced to live with less so now we have to find a new way to tax people. :hissy:

You watch, more people will walk and/or ride bikes and I bet they will find a way to tax that too because it will cut down on fuel taxes.
 

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A milage tax would be more fair, since I know that my gas-hog TBSS doesn't put more wear and tear on the road than something that's not as thirsty at the pump. If only there was a non-invasive way to track it. :m2:
 

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i read about this on another site.

yeh, um my car will NOT be equipped. if it is equipped, it will soon be un-equipped, with a sledge hammer if needed. :thumbsup:
:iagree::iagree: I'll take that Sledgehammer when you're done!!!!
 

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Discussion Starter #7
A milage tax would be more fair, since I know that my gas-hog TBSS doesn't put more wear and tear on the road than something that's not as thirsty at the pump. If only there was a non-invasive way to track it. :m2:
i agree kinda.. but there is a cheaper solution they could do but it wouldnt be perfect... they mark down the mileage when u go in for emissions rite?? but then the cars before 96 would be another problem..

i read about this on another site.

yeh, um my car will NOT be equipped. if it is equipped, it will soon be un-equipped, with a sledge hammer if needed. :thumbsup:
very much in agreement here.. cept i do prefer the hatchet... but i mite just be partisan to that..


but how much money do u think this would cost to outfit every vehicle with such a device to do it... it would be unbelievable... and some how they would try and make us pay for it to get installed so they can track us and charge us money... who wants to take bets??? any takers???
 

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i agree kinda.. but there is a cheaper solution they could do but it wouldnt be perfect... they mark down the mileage when u go in for emissions rite?? but then the cars before 96 would be another problem..
Here in Ohio we don't do emissions. Maybe there could be a way to enter your milage at the pump when you buy gas. And once a year (like when you renew your registration) they could verify the milage at the DMV so those who cheat at the pump would have to catch up on all the unpaid miles.:duh:
 

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A milage tax would be more fair, since I know that my gas-hog TBSS doesn't put more wear and tear on the road than something that's not as thirsty at the pump. If only there was a non-invasive way to track it. :m2:
It's an invasion of privacy, nothing more. If it was strictly to be a mileage tax, they'd be tracking the miles your car has driven, not WHERE you drive... The argument is; it's easy to disable something that just counts miles, so we need to know where, exactly you're going, for how long, to do what...

For instance, you park in a bank's parking lot to go next door to the bank and get something to eat. The bank gets robbed while you're eating and you go get in your car and go home after you're done eating. That night, the local "Squat team" goes "hut-hut-hut-hut..." around your house, and through your front door, shoots your dog, and maybe hits one of your kids with an errant round from shooting the dog. Turns out that you were the only one in the bank parking lot that wasn't a bank customer, during the robbery. Now, because of the GPS in your car, you're guilty until you prove yourself innocent, but you've still got a wounded or killed kid, a dead dog, and thousands of dollars of your life savings in proving your innocence. Sounds a little "tin foil hat", but stranger things have happened even now.

Oh, and now that we've got GPS in all of your vehicles, there is no need for traffic police, because we just mail you a ticket when the GPS tells us that you've been speeding... Better than RADAR, can't fight it in court, etc...

Bottom line... It's an electronic way for them say "Dien Papier Bitta?" ("your papers please" in German)

Mike
 

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It's an invasion of privacy, nothing more. If it was strictly to be a mileage tax, they'd be tracking the miles your car has driven, not WHERE you drive... The argument is; it's easy to disable something that just counts miles,...
If only there was a non-invasive way to track it. :m2:
If they can put a man on the moon, they can surely invent a tamper-proof device to put on vehicles that does nothing more than tally miles.
 

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:iagree:
It's an invasion of privacy, nothing more. If it was strictly to be a mileage tax, they'd be tracking the miles your car has driven, not WHERE you drive... The argument is; it's easy to disable something that just counts miles, so we need to know where, exactly you're going, for how long, to do what...

For instance, you park in a bank's parking lot to go next door to the bank and get something to eat. The bank gets robbed while you're eating and you go get in your car and go home after you're done eating. That night, the local "Squat team" goes "hut-hut-hut-hut..." around your house, and through your front door, shoots your dog, and maybe hits one of your kids with an errant round from shooting the dog. Turns out that you were the only one in the bank parking lot that wasn't a bank customer, during the robbery. Now, because of the GPS in your car, you're guilty until you prove yourself innocent, but you've still got a wounded or killed kid, a dead dog, and thousands of dollars of your life savings in proving your innocence. Sounds a little "tin foil hat", but stranger things have happened even now.

Oh, and now that we've got GPS in all of your vehicles, there is no need for traffic police, because we just mail you a ticket when the GPS tells us that you've been speeding... Better than RADAR, can't fight it in court, etc...

Bottom line... It's an electronic way for them say "Dien Papier Bitta?" ("your papers please" in German)

Mike
:iagree: GPS is not the way to go.....
 

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Taxing fuel is THE way to go...

1. anonomous
2. no issues with privacy, see #1
3. larger, heavier vehicles with more power tear up the road more, so they pay more taxes.
4. People get a tax break along with their gasoline break, when they buy hybrids and small, fuel efficient vehicles.
5. Doesn't cost TRILLIONS of dollars outfitting every vehicle with a $300 device... Those are TRILLIONS of dollars that we, the tax payers, would be footing the bill for, BTW...
ETA: 6. Doesn't cost TRILLIONS of dollars starting and running a new branch of government specifically to track and keep databases of the mileage everybody drives.

If they need more money tue to falling usage, just raise the gasoline tax.

Mike
 

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It's like everything else the government does, they try a new way that they think will be better and find out later the old way was the best. It's like bottled water, 10 years ago it was the greatest thing and everyone had to drink it to be cool. Now, it's the devil because of the plastic bottles and tap water is the new great thing. :duh::bonk:

How about we just leave taxes on gasoline and the states trim the fat and make it work? Wow, there's a crazy idea! Only in Government can you always change the rules to be in your favor. :hissy:

I'm wondering how long before the Hybrid driver's get their panties in a wad because they are no longer saving money by getting better mpg. :crackup:
 

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I am never in favour of raising taxes, but if you have a proven method (that is paid for) and it is not generating the tax $ it once provided, raise it.
I believe your fed tax and most (if not all) state tax is a fixed tax (5 cents/2 cents per gal), if gas consumption is declining, taking the tax revenue with it, add a cent or two to the tax.

Tax on fuel is a true consumption tax (unlike income tax), The US and Canada should keep it as a consumption tax.

BTW, in Canada we use a % formula, so as the price of gas increases, so will the tax. This, of course, inflates the price even more.
 

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3. larger, heavier vehicles with more power tear up the road more, so they pay more taxes.
I pay more at the pump than you...but don't tear up the road more than you.:nono:

I agree that there doesn't seem to be a feasable way to do it...but I think that a milage-based tax is a more fair way to do it.
 

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If they can put a man on the moon, they can surely invent a tamper-proof device to put on vehicles that does nothing more than tally miles.
if your going to do that, then just attach a millage meter like the ones on simi trailers. then put a seal on it where you could tell it was tampered with.


but really, i think increasing the tax on gas would be the best way. i would have no problem paying higher gas taxes....if i knew the money was going to the infrastructure and not some greedy son of a b%tch. most of the money our government spends goes to the greedy b%tches and useless programs...(Homeland security for one)
 

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I pay more at the pump than you...but don't tear up the road more than you.:nono:

I agree that there doesn't seem to be a feasable way to do it...but I think that a milage-based tax is a more fair way to do it.
Actually, you do... Wider, stickier tires wear on the road more than thinner, less sticky tires do (remember, tires work on slip angles, so the wider the tire, the more slip it's going to have with the road in turns), and the wider, stickier tires are at least half of the difference in the mileage between the 2 of our vehicles... The other half is the engine, which when you're into the gas, can also tear up the road more than I can... Sure, you've got a little bit less fuel effecient engine, but the engine's effeciency is completely not the whole story.

So... you're saying that a LOADED 1-ton truck, towing a flat bed trailer full of concrete blocks tears up the road the same as a bone stock Civic? No, we all know the truck towing the trailer tears up the road more, so he should pay more tax, right? Next you're going to say that the mileage tax should be tiered, so that bigger, heavier vehicles pay a higher per-mile tax, because they tear up the road more (if not, you're a socialist sack of s#!t), but guess what... THEY ALREADY DO, BECAUSE THEY BUY MORE GAS!

Also, remember... YOU PAID MORE MONEY AND PURCHASED IT FOR THE POWER, KNOWING THAT THERE WAS A GAS TAX, AND KNOWING THAT IT GOT WORSE MILEAGE, SO QUIT [email protected]!

It's like the people who buy land next to a shooting range, build a house there, then b#tch (and sue) about the noise until the place gets shut down, even though they knew d#mn good and well that the range had been there for 50 years before they built their house.

You're ready to invite the government into all of our personal lives, because you knowingly purchased a vehicle with wider tires and more power, and are now butt-hurt over having to pay higher taxes for a vehicle that YOU CHOSE to pay more money for, knowing what the score was to begin with.

THIS attitude is the reason "we" are headed right down the rabbit hole, and the reason "we" elected a socialist president... People not wanting to take responsibility for their own decisions and mistakes, and wanting "big brother" to take care of it for them. "he's getting a better deal that me, because he made better decisions than I did... WAAAAHHH".

It is currently as fair as it ever will be. period.

Mike
 

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It's an invasion of privacy, nothing more. If it was strictly to be a mileage tax, they'd be tracking the miles your car has driven, not WHERE you drive... The argument is; it's easy to disable something that just counts miles, so we need to know where, exactly you're going, for how long, to do what...

For instance, you park in a bank's parking lot to go next door to the bank and get something to eat. The bank gets robbed while you're eating and you go get in your car and go home after you're done eating. That night, the local "Squat team" goes "hut-hut-hut-hut..." around your house, and through your front door, shoots your dog, and maybe hits one of your kids with an errant round from shooting the dog. Turns out that you were the only one in the bank parking lot that wasn't a bank customer, during the robbery. Now, because of the GPS in your car, you're guilty until you prove yourself innocent, but you've still got a wounded or killed kid, a dead dog, and thousands of dollars of your life savings in proving your innocence. Sounds a little "tin foil hat", but stranger things have happened even now.

Oh, and now that we've got GPS in all of your vehicles, there is no need for traffic police, because we just mail you a ticket when the GPS tells us that you've been speeding... Better than RADAR, can't fight it in court, etc...

Bottom line... It's an electronic way for them say "Dien Papier Bitta?" ("your papers please" in German)

:iagree:

Mike
If they can put a man on the moon, they can surely invent a tamper-proof device to put on vehicles that does nothing more than tally miles.
BUt they should not have too ..
 

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if your going to do that, then just attach a millage meter like the ones on simi trailers. then put a seal on it where you could tell it was tampered with.
Those are EASILY defeated... Since the hub spins with the wheel, and the weighted part is supposed to sit there and stay still due to gravity, all you have to do is put electrical tape from the counter to its hub, and the counter will spin with the hub...

Really, even if they start something like that, that "just" counts miles, they'll replace it with GPS in very short order, because "people are cheating the system"... The "mile counter" would just be a (rather short) stepping stone to what they really want... Real time GPS tracking on every vehicle in the US...

Mike
 

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It's all a bunch of crap

I say we all don't even buy into the argument that the poor government needs to have more money. They have and squander too much already. We all need to get mad as hell and not take it anymore. The entire premise is false anyway. Let's look at it logically. The purpose of the fuel tax is precisely to fund highway maintenance due to wear and tear and improvements as more vehicles go on the road. Thus, the more people drive, the more they pay. (Yes, mileage varies; some pay more some pay less, but it's our choice - That's freedom.) If gov't revenue from the fuel tax goes down, it's mostly because fewer people are driving (not everyone swapped to 4-bangers and hybrids within the span of a few months), which means fewer cars taxing the highway capacity and causing wear. Therefore, the need for highway repairs diminishes, as well as the need for funding said repairs. Voila! The current system already works as it should. What the bureaucrats and politicians simply cannot stomach is having less of our money to play around with. Ever notice that with all the money that is taken by local governments, when they are faced with having less cash from us they always threaten "essential services" instead of not billing every staff luncheon or other b.s. frill to the taxpayer? How many times have you seen perfectly good sod being torn up and replaced next to a road with potholes or trees and plants being planted in the median of a crappy road in an even worse neighborhood? That's the type of idiotic waste that they refuse to stop, so when you tell them you want to keep some of your money, they try to strong arm you by telling you your neighborhoods won't be safe, and they're going to fire your kid's teacher. So tell them to stick it, pay attention to when the next election is (not just the ones every 4 yrs.) and FIRE THEIR SORRY ASSES!!! :m2::m2::m2::m2: :tiphat
 
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