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2003 gmc envoy_slt
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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Okay... so this is a small rant that I have to get off my workbench. I love the comfort, style and ride of my 2003 GMC Envoy. It's the first vehicle I have owned that literally had ALMOST EVERYTHING I could ever want in it. So here is the hate... the technical design just kills me.

I also have a 1990 Mazda Miata, a car in which I can do just about any job on it with a phillips head screw driver, and about 4 sockets. Technically, I could to with with a phillips head screw driver and sub a good pair of channel locks for the sockets if I just wanted to use two tools. Electrical wires connect at key points with plugs that can be disconnected for total removal of a section.

The GMC Envoy has none of this.

I am halfway through replacing the sunroof assembly (for the second time - don't even want to get started on THAT) and had to take apart 95% of the interior trim plastics to drop the headliner which cannot be taken completely out of the car due to the fact that it has multiple wire looms attached to it AND the body of the car WITHOUT disconnects. On top of this, the operation required:
(1) A small AND large slotted screwdriver
(2) A small phillips screwdriver
(3) A 9mm socket

- and the best part, wait for it.... wait for it....

(4) THREE SIZES OF TORX! TORX. REALLY???!!! Would it have effin killed ya GM to use something freakin normal.

It indicates a hubris on the part of the GM engineers that borders on narcissistic. They designed something to be constructed and assembled in such a way that repairing it becomes exceptionally difficult and expensive were you to pay a shop to do it. (Tear down alone took over two hours and another one and half for the repair) But then again, in their minds you should never need to do any work on it because we're America and our #@*% don't break, yo.

Unfortunately, that is not the case in reality. My little 1990 Miata has 215,300+ miles on it and has had fewer issues than my 2003 Envoy with 100k. That tells you something.

Again, I still love the Voy... just frustrated at some of the things that were done in putting together this great vehicle... that's all. - //end.rant

:hissy:
 

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2002 chevy trailblazer_ls
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1,433 Posts
Heh, the torx comment reminds me of my 98 Camaro. Upper shock mount on the front passenger side had 4 standard bolts. Easy peasy. Upper shock mount on the driver side however had 2 standard bolts and 2 T50 or something huge like that Torx bolts. And if that wasn't bad enough that I had to go out and get a torx socket for my ratchet, those two torx bolts were directly underneath the master cylinder to boot :bonk: The replacement Moog upper mounts I used had standard bolts on both sides, which made much more sense!

So yeah, I do think that the engineers can be rather narcissistic at times :weird: Makes me wonder if they design stuff, then sit back and come up with some random screwball way to make it harder on purpose :suicide:
 

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2004 gmc
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26,181 Posts
...repairing it becomes exceptionally difficult and expensive were you to pay a shop to do it....
But of COURSE in their universe you're going to pay a shop to do the work: Their DEALERSHIP cousins! If it's not an explicit conspiracy it's a subconscious one. Make sure you have to spend 10 hours to remove the dashboard to replace the HVAC air recirculation actuator. That sort of stuff. The I6 thermostat! The starter on the V8! The I6 lack of PCV valve that causes dirty throttle bodies. The driver's door module that gets wet and dies because it's mounted FLAT instead of upright!

Yes, a definite love/hate relationship, made even worse because I'm an electrical engineer and know how *I* would have designed things, but then I'm not subject to GM management pressure or economic motivations. :sadcry:
 

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Like Roadie says, they dont think about you doing the work your self, they want you to take it to the dealer, where they can charge what ever they want. So they make it as difficult as possible. I know its been said a million times, but it makes ZERO sense that the GMT360 has a unique 6 lug wheel patten. It would have saved them a lot of time, and money to just use the started 6x5.5 but nooooooooooooo the had to create a new one, just for us and the ssr.
 

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2003 chevy trailblazer_lt
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210 Posts
Hey it's not the engineer's fault...( i inserted sarcasm:crackup: ) it's built by the UAW who contract's out to the lowest bidder so that way they have more money in there pocket's ... that's why GM spend's 26,000 to build a 30,000 pick up.:thumbsup:
 

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2002 chevy trailblazer_ls
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Is it just GM or are all new cars built this way? I also have a '93 Nissan and a '94 Honda and they are easy to work on. The TB, not so much...
All newer cars it seems. Your 93 Nissan might be easy to work on, but my brother's 01 Nissan can be a pain. Heck they even put the oil filter against the firewall :weird:
 

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2006 gmc envoy_denali
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391 Posts
My Love, Hate Relationship is really starting to get an emphasis on the HATE part:hissy:... Bought the Envoy for $24000 3 years ago and fast approaching $12000 in maintainance and repairs over the 3 year period:duh:. Warranty will be done at end of December so no more help from GM after that. Might have to seriously consider getting rid of it soon:confused:...
 

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2009 chevy
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263 Posts
My Love, Hate Relationship is really starting to get an emphasis on the HATE part:hissy:... Bought the Envoy for $24000 3 years ago and fast approaching $12000 in maintainance and repairs over the 3 year period:duh:. Warranty will be done at end of December so no more help from GM after that. Might have to seriously consider getting rid of it soon:confused:...
I can understand your concerns with your warranty expiration date on your vehicle shortly approaching. However, if you happen to have an issue with your vehicle after your warranty is up, we can look further into your situation and we will strive to find the best solution.

If you have any other questions or concerns, feel free to let us know. We hope to keep your relationship on the "love" side with your vehicle! Thank you! :)

Joey, GM Customer Service
 

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2004 gmc
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26,181 Posts
Joey, I have one very relevant question you might provide a policy answer for.

If a "concern" is reported to a dealer BEFORE the warranty is up, and they either fail to see it happen (the infamous "could not duplicate" response to intermittent problems), or attempt to fix it but fail, is that "concern" covered even after the end date or mileage on the warranty?
 

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2009 chevy
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263 Posts
Joey, I have one very relevant question you might provide a policy answer for.

If a "concern" is reported to a dealer BEFORE the warranty is up, and they either fail to see it happen (the infamous "could not duplicate" response to intermittent problems), or attempt to fix it but fail, is that "concern" covered even after the end date or mileage on the warranty?
Good question! If the issue is reported to the dealer beforehand or the vehicle needed maintenance in general before its warranty was up, that fact will be taken into heavy consideration.

The warranty expiration date should not be viewed as the last date GM can assist their customers with vehicle issues. We have recently expanded the ability of our dealers to assist customers outside of warranty.

Thank you

Joey, GM Customer Service
 

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2006 gmc envoy_denali
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391 Posts
Good question! If the issue is reported to the dealer beforehand or the vehicle needed maintenance in general before its warranty was up, that fact will be taken into heavy consideration.

The warranty expiration date should not be viewed as the last date GM can assist their customers with vehicle issues. We have recently expanded the ability of our dealers to assist customers outside of warranty.

Thank you

Joey, GM Customer Service
Roadie, thats why my Envoy is still at the dealership. They called on the 12th to say the heater hose repair was done but I left it there because of 2 issues not being solved yet. I want these corrected before the warranty runs out. My question's to Joey.

1. squeal when cold, been in 3-4 times to my dealer to be corrected, the last time BOTH belts had to be replaced in March at my expense because of non warranty parts($233.00 plus taxes). I already paid more than my deductable of $200 to correct it, now the squeal is back, what happens now if the squeal is found to be from a warranty covered part, will I be reimbursed for the misdiagnosis of new belts? Service manager said he will swap one bad belt at no cost to me if that is the issue, but what if it's not?

2. intermittent no start, they replaced the ignition switch at a cost of $157.00 plus taxes. Out of pocket expense due to being less than the deductable. Still has the no start issue, they say now they can't correct it because they can't duplicate it? The service advisor did experience the no start but no tech was around at the time. He said they don't wanna invest up to 10 hours of Tech time to try and diagnose the no start. The Service Manager said he would refund the amount but quite honestly I would rather have the issue fixed.

As far as the GM Toatal Plus Warranty, I believe I should be entitled to a replacement vehicle while they diagnose and repair the no start. Also the Roadside Assistance part has been a problem for me. 3 seperate calls for a tow to the dealership and 3 denials from Roadside Assistance stating I'm not covered. After a 25 minute polite conversation I did get the tow the last time, but the previous 2 were at my own expense. But I bet my info at GM still states no Roadside assistance for me. Maybe some "outside of warranty assistance" could have been given to me (less the deductable) for the heater hose repair considering I have been through an engine swap that resulted in those hoses to be removed and reused and also that the tranmission fluid would have comtaminated them when the rad had to be replaced due to transmission line leak.

We bought the GM Total Plus Warranty so my wife would have trouble free motoring on her 40 minute daily hi way commute to work. Now she's using her holidays because she has no Envoy to get her to work.

We've had no Envoy for almost 2 weeks now:coffee.
 

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2009 chevy
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Roadie, thats why my Envoy is still at the dealership. They called on the 12th to say the heater hose repair was done but I left it there because of 2 issues not being solved yet. I want these corrected before the warranty runs out. My question's to Joey.

1. squeal when cold, been in 3-4 times to my dealer to be corrected, the last time BOTH belts had to be replaced in March at my expense because of non warranty parts($233.00 plus taxes). I already paid more than my deductable of $200 to correct it, now the squeal is back, what happens now if the squeal is found to be from a warranty covered part, will I be reimbursed for the misdiagnosis of new belts? Service manager said he will swap one bad belt at no cost to me if that is the issue, but what if it's not?

2. intermittent no start, they replaced the ignition switch at a cost of $157.00 plus taxes. Out of pocket expense due to being less than the deductable. Still has the no start issue, they say now they can't correct it because they can't duplicate it? The service advisor did experience the no start but no tech was around at the time. He said they don't wanna invest up to 10 hours of Tech time to try and diagnose the no start. The Service Manager said he would refund the amount but quite honestly I would rather have the issue fixed.

As far as the GM Toatal Plus Warranty, I believe I should be entitled to a replacement vehicle while they diagnose and repair the no start. Also the Roadside Assistance part has been a problem for me. 3 seperate calls for a tow to the dealership and 3 denials from Roadside Assistance stating I'm not covered. After a 25 minute polite conversation I did get the tow the last time, but the previous 2 were at my own expense. But I bet my info at GM still states no Roadside assistance for me. Maybe some "outside of warranty assistance" could have been given to me (less the deductable) for the heater hose repair considering I have been through an engine swap that resulted in those hoses to be removed and reused and also that the tranmission fluid would have comtaminated them when the rad had to be replaced due to transmission line leak.

We bought the GM Total Plus Warranty so my wife would have trouble free motoring on her 40 minute daily hi way commute to work. Now she's using her holidays because she has no Envoy to get her to work.

We've had no Envoy for almost 2 weeks now:coffee.
I'm sorry to hear about your situation. Please leave me your VIN and contact information in a private message so I can set up a case for you. Thank you!

Joey, GM Customer Service
 

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2003 chevy trailblazer_ls
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Man first i must say every car i've ever owned has been a love hat relationship. most of which where performance mod related. my is300 was not bad to work on... until i put headers on it. IMPOSSIBLE to get the stock headers out without tearing apart the motor. could drop them because i was on jack stands. so i ended up cutting them into pieces lol.

Heres one that i thought couldnt be beat but the trailblazer is nearing it:

02 audi S4.... flippin german engineering man. absolutely ridiculous. wanted to headers and exhuast and WOW you couldnt see a single bolt or nut let alone get a finger or tool on it. im talkin NO room for anything. insane
just the spark plugs - had to take out the GIANT air box, intake, intake manifold. and even then it was tight.

dumped that thing for an SC300. had to go back to the toyota greatness. dd a 1.5jz swap , single turbo, **** even managed to tune it myself!! put a posi in it and it was all fun and games. getting the stock twin turbos off was horrible!! dealing with the chinese single turbo manifold and turbo bolts is a pain in the butt too!!! put downpipe on before wastegate... FAIL!! getting that waste gate on was so hard in itself.

love hate love hate love hate. always and forever with any car i have. you know you hated the miata at one point in time... if not? then you are breaking it enough ;)

sc300 255 fuel pump failure, blew my motor, bought a freashly rebuilt 2jzgte bottom end. re assmeble everything only to find out..... the "professionally" rebuilt bottom end was not assembled right and it's currently blowing past the rings... YESSS!!!! HATE TIME!! lesson learned there.... ive always been a DIY guy. this is what i get for not building my own bottom end. attacking that project after... u guess it.

TRAIL BLAZER MOTOR SWAP:
what a pain in the ass this truck is. first off I have never in my short life seen a vehicle that WHEN IN PARK, you cannot take the key out of the ignition UNLESS the battery has power. flippin boggles my mind.

clips upon clips. every clip has a grey safety clip on it... like the normal super hard clip isnt enough. screw that.. i broke all those off. **** on my SC 4 of the coil pack plugs have no clips.

everything is in a akward spot. fuel lines.... right agains the trans mission... like WTF!?!

currently cannot turn the motor more that half a turn so i cannot get to the torque convertor bolts... what a pain in the ass. another mind boggling issue. makes no sense at all.

they left room... but not much at all. such a good looking truck though. cnat wait to daily drive her.

Too ur gates keeper mason symbol...
we know the truth. and they will never be sucessfull. if all goes well for me financially god willing i WILL be over there to fight with the Ansar Allah.

God bless you giant herd of sheep ;)
 
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