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Discussion Starter #21
Did you try the relay connector, i assure you I HAD THE SAME SYMPTOMS, they tried everything, fuel filter fuel pump when they started saying it was teh ignition switch i just laughed and left, after taking the the fuel thank apart and following the fuel connector wires with a tracert i saw that some pins of teh relay were becoming loose

just try it....add a longer lenght of wire to the fuel pump relay and squeeze it in, if it works you will know it's the fuse box connectors

the last time it did it I did mess with the fuel pump relay but I didn't add any wire to it. I'm not sure if I know where you added the wire too. Do you mean to put some wire over the end of the pin so that it is on both sides of the pin and push it back in the fuse box?

Another question for you, when yours did start after cranking did it run rough for a minute before smoothing out? Mine runs rough and blows a fair amount of white smoke which makes me think it's getting fuel when it's cranking.

Thanks
 

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the last time it did it I did mess with the fuel pump relay but I didn't add any wire to it. I'm not sure if I know where you added the wire too. Do you mean to put some wire over the end of the pin so that it is on both sides of the pin and push it back in the fuse box?

Another question for you, when yours did start after cranking did it run rough for a minute before smoothing out? Mine runs rough and blows a fair amount of white smoke which makes me think it's getting fuel when it's cranking.

Thanks
That's exactly it, just add the wire between so you have "enough" contact between the connector and the fuse box, for the white smoke, when it "wanted" to start i did have white smoke for a few moments, then it was dying as the pump was not holding it power stable enough,

i hope you get it going, i know i was mad as hell when the thing would'nt move and the dealer did'nt know ****...
 

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Discussion Starter #23
thanks I will give that a try the next time it fails on me. tell me about it, I am so fed up with that thing. one time it starts fine and the next time it takes me 5 min to get the darn thing started. Not to mention dealing with the stupid dealer.

did you just end up leaving the wire in yours? what would be the permanent fix, replace the entire fuse panel?

I'll let you know how it goes.

thanks again
 

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I was discussing this with my Dad and he had an idea. First thing he thought of was that it was either the oil pump or the oil pressure switch. His theory was it is slow to build pressure and the computer won't let the engine start until it builds sufficient pressure. This is a fail safe so if you lose pressure it will kill the engine before the engine fails. The reason the dealer changed the oil filter he suspects is that AC Delco on most of their filters have an anti-drainback valve. If a filter was installed without the valve then it will allow oil to drainback from the top end and cause an oil starvation until pressure is built backup. He works at Autozone and while I know a lot of you guys don't think to highly of Autozone he is pretty good when it comes to this stuff. He was telling me that when you pull the part number up for an AC Delco oil filter the system will ask you with or without anti-drainback valve. Again we may be way off but just trying to give some help.
 

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thanks I will give that a try the next time it fails on me. tell me about it, I am so fed up with that thing. one time it starts fine and the next time it takes me 5 min to get the darn thing started. Not to mention dealing with the stupid dealer.

did you just end up leaving the wire in yours? what would be the permanent fix, replace the entire fuse panel?

I'll let you know how it goes.

thanks again
The permanent fix would be either to disasemble the fuse block and push back the pins into their respective sockets, or then again replace the assemble with the new part number with tighter smaller conectors, the new boxes have a bigger clamp on them with retainers on their back, i guess gm realised that putting the fuse box right on top of the shock could in then get loosen up with all those vibrations...
 

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here is my five cents!!

:thumbsup:whatsup guy!!

well here someone made a comment which is the main things you need to fire-up a motor,
1-)gas
2-)fire
3-)oxigen (air)

how to check the gas? the line has a valve close to the motor where you check the pressure in the line, when you try to start it and it doesnt start it could be that something related to the pump is not woking properly not enough pressure, for this you need a pressure tester (gage) if you have enough pressure but it goes down while you try to start it the filter may be dirty, if no pressure at all it could be the pump,relay,electrical or even a broken hose from the tank to the pump if external pump it coul be taking air before it gets any gas (pressure gage will help you figuring out this)..
2-) take a screw driver and put it in the spark plug wire and get it close to the metal while cranking it to check for spark if no spark youre in some deep [email protected]#$ it could be many things,ignition switch,brain,fuse,relay,broken wire, etc. but i dont think any of this is the case because it turns on after a while, i think it may be the pressure issue! (you crank for a while and you built pressure until it turns on you follow me?) one more reason you wont get spark is the cranking sensor fail!!!! it make the computer think the motor is not turning therfore it doesnt need power and wont send any!! crank sensors act like that at time they work fine then it just wont respond until you try a few times.. normally runing it wont turn off because the engine is runing at a higher rpm than when you try to start and it allows it to detect it while runing.. has it ever tunr off on you while runing?
3-) is less likely to be the cause because it'll turn on still but shaking alot (try to open the throtle valve manually to allow some air to reach the combustion chamber.. is this was the problem a code should have been crated in diagnostic (engine service soon):thumbsup:


if the pump doesnt work use a multy meter to check for power reaching the pump before you replace the pump!!
 

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2-) take a screw driver and put it in the spark plug wire and get it close to the metal while cranking it
:x Maybe on a car that actually HAD plug wires. Have you looked under your hood lately to see that we have no distributor or plug wires? :(
..try to open the throtle valve manually to allow some air to reach the combustion chamber..
If you do this you can destroy the valve actuator. The shop manual is filled with dire warnings about pushing on the butterfly when the power is on.

Please learn more about the special requirements of the trailvoys before giving advice that could cost people hundreds of $$$. :no: :sadcry:
 

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:thumbsup:whatsup guy!!

well here someone made a comment which is the main things you need to fire-up a motor,
1-)gas
2-)fire
3-)oxigen (air)
In addition to what Roadie said, you actually need:

1): Fuel (which in this case is gasoline)
2): "Fire" would be spark
3): While it's true you need "oxigen" (sic) just having air in the cylinder is not enough. You have to have compression of the air/fuel mixture.

People always seem to forget about number 3. If you have little or no compression, all the fuel and spark in the world doesn't matter - that cylinder is NOT going to fire properly if at all! :bonk:
 

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:x Maybe on a car that actually HAD plug wires. Have you looked under your hood lately to see that we have no distributor or plug wires? :(If you do this you can destroy the valve actuator. The shop manual is filled with dire warnings about pushing on the butterfly when the power is on.

Please learn more about the special requirements of the trailvoys before giving advice that could cost people hundreds of $$$. :no: :sadcry:
what could hapen if you make a spark from the coil to the metal not touching the metal dough? isnt the plug making ground to the metal it self? thank you!!:raspberry

i know it has coils on every plug and thats what i ment and you can check it using a multy meter done it my self , regarding the butterfly for the air intake i didnt mean to open it all the way or force it! it has a little play not forcing it which is what i actualy was talking about as you need very little air to start it! on top of that the sensor has to be disconnected so it wont get damage now on this you may be right i have to agree the actuator mechanism may get damage if is forced no questions asked however you can remove the actuator and do it with out it!!!

i hope no ofence is taken by anyone!!:tiphat
 

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thanks I will give that a try the next time it fails on me. tell me about it, I am so fed up with that thing. one time it starts fine and the next time it takes me 5 min to get the darn thing started. Not to mention dealing with the stupid dealer.

did you just end up leaving the wire in yours? what would be the permanent fix, replace the entire fuse panel?

I'll let you know how it goes.

thanks again
exuse my question but am assuming the dealer is getting some kind of faulty code arent they? if so do you hapen to know what it was? (definition) i have a feeling is going to be the crank sensor
 

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Discussion Starter #31
exuse my question but am assuming the dealer is getting some kind of faulty code arent they? if so do you hapen to know what it was? (definition) i have a feeling is going to be the crank sensor
no, the dealer is not getting any codes whatsoever. That's part of the problem, because they don't know where to look for the problem.
 

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exuse my question but am assuming the dealer is getting some kind of faulty code arent they? if so do you hapen to know what it was? (definition) i have a feeling is going to be the crank sensor
The onboard diagnostic computer on the tb is as useless as a popsicle salesman in antartica, seriously NOT ONCE did my tb ever throwed a code concerning the fuse box, as per the onboard diag the tb was fine....

been there, done that, i thought the same thing, but the crank sensor would throw a code on the spot....and would at least let your crank the engine once or twice fully
 

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what could hapen if you make a spark from the coil to the metal not touching the metal dough? isnt the plug making ground to the metal it self? thank you!!:raspberry

i know it has coils on every plug and thats what i ment and you can check it using a multy meter done it my self , regarding the butterfly for the air intake i didnt mean to open it all the way or force it! it has a little play not forcing it which is what i actualy was talking about as you need very little air to start it! on top of that the sensor has to be disconnected so it wont get damage now on this you may be right i have to agree the actuator mechanism may get damage if is forced no questions asked however you can remove the actuator and do it with out it!!!

i hope no ofence is taken by anyone!!:tiphat

By doing so you would create a surge on the coil, thus eitehr killing it on the spot, or weakening it spark capabilities, it's designed to let a certain amount of current, if you "induce" it into sparking where it's not supposed to, you are killing it, i'm sure some welders would tell you this, it's the same process as an electric welder, if your mesh is too long your are killing the transformer everytime... or if you weld on a non clean surface you are demanding more juice from the tranformer and those babies are not cheap same as the coils...

For the throttle body, if yours has "a little play" i would suggest you change it....mine is stiff "lol" no play and very precise, i clean on a regular basis and at the same time i check for the impedance, just a milimeter will make that thing jump quite a bit, by default if the throttle body is disconnected, the tb willnot start, if it does, you have another problem, i once forgot to plg the throtle cable back in and started the thing, that was the most 10 minutes of frustration i was having, until i plugged my scanner, two codes, one for throlle body out of range and one for not connected...

and if you disconnect it while it on, that may work, but you will be in for a surprise, it closes instantly as the spring are hard, and getting it open properly will land you a nice cut on the fingers if you are not carefull, and then try to explain to the dealer why there's skin,blood and fingers in the intake manifold... (lol)
 

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The onboard diagnostic computer on the tb is as useless as a popsicle salesman in antartica, seriously NOT ONCE did my tb ever throwed a code concerning the fuse box, as per the onboard diag the tb was fine....

been there, done that, i thought the same thing, but the crank sensor would throw a code on the spot....and would at least let your crank the engine once or twice fully
the crank sensor allows you to cranck the engine for aslong as you want or the battery dies, but wont allow the computer to see the engine turning (cranking) and youre correct a code should comeup if this was the case however it has to fail when the car is on to be able to record it but it could be that it just fails at low rpm i had a similar problem on my BMW and the code wouldnt come up until it actually fail when the car was fully runing, it turned off on me then i got the code, i was able to still turn on the car and drove it for a few days but i had a hard time starting it but once it started it wouldnt turn off at one point it look like the sensor was good the light went out and came back on!! it'll start fine a few days then it'll star acting up
 

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Discussion Starter #35
Just an update to my starting issues. The last thing the dealer replaced was the ignition switch. After picking it up from dealer, had problems starting the vehicle probably 2 or 3 times in the following few days. It has now been about 2 weeks since then and have had no more problems starting vehicle. I guess it decided to just fix itself. I'm keeping my fingers crossed, but for right now it appears to be fixed.
 

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I'm having identical problem

My TB died during driving and would not start on occasion after that. Took it to the dealer and it would not act up. Would not start while out in the sticks and had it towed to a repair shop. They replaced the fuel pump for $700. The problem continued, so I had the ignition switch replaced. The problem continued, I finaly determined that when I had the problem, the fuel pump was not running (could not hear it when I turn the key on). Replaced the fuel pump relay in the fuse box and it started right up. The next day I had the problem again, unpluged the relay and wiggled it around and it started.

How hard is it to repair or replace the fuse/relay box? Could it be something else?
 

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They said WHAT??? OK, the first thing you need to do is get to a different dealer/service dept. The starter motor is designed to stop as soon as you let go of the key.....period.

If there is a vehicle that works the way the dealer told you, I wish someone would tell me.....I have NEVER heard that before.

IMO, it sure sounds like the ignition switch to me.
2009 Ford Fusion 3.0L starts like that just turn the key to engage it and it does the rest on its own..
 
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