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Discussion Starter #1
Well hi everyone
I am having a problem and I need a bit of help with it. I have a 2004 trailblazer with a 4.2 in it and I spun a rod bearing. I destroyed the crank so I found a new one that was in good shape it was from a 2007. I rebuilt the engine and got it all back together. And like so many other on this forum I got the check engine light and the code reader said it was crank and cam miss match. I knew I rebuild the engine right so I figured it needed crank sensor relearn so I took it to the dealer and they tried to do the relearn well that didn’t work and the tech told me it had to be internal timing so I took it home and took it apart again I tdc’ed the #1 cylinder with a plunge micrometer and it was right on and 0/0 then I used a cam tool and held the cam flats perfectly strait then I aligned the cam sprockets on the darkened links and the exhaust actuator was advance as directed by the shop manual. So with that said the engine timing is right on and a second trip to the dealer still won’t reset the code I looked up the part #’s for the crank and they are different I am hoping that GM didn’t change the reluctor wheel spec’s throwing off the hole system. I do know that the flex plate bolts are different so be aware of that. If anyone has a suggestion I am up for it , and if anyone knows if the crank is different please let me know
it has been seven months I have worked on this thing and I am about to buy a junk yard motor and waste all the upgrades like clevite 77 steel backed road bearings.
Thanks
 

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Do you know the code? P0017, maybe? You are absolutely sure the timing marks all line up? I had an Ecotec engine I "swore" I lined the marks up and the exhaust cam gear was one tooth off. You may have to remove the timing cover again and rotate the engine over quite a few times to get all the marks to line up. Took over 30 crank revolutions to get them all to line up. geez.....not 2 like a normal V8.

Mark

2004 Chevrolet TrailBlazer - 4WD | Bravada, Envoy, Rainier, TrailBlazer (VIN S/T) Service Manual | Document ID: 2235070
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#PIP3694C: Belt Noise Rough Idle And/Or SES Light With DTC P0014 And/Or P0017 - Inspect CMP Actuator Solenoid And Crankshaft Endplay - keywords P0106 - (Feb 16, 2009)


Subject: Belt Noise, Rough Idle, and/or SES Light with DTC P0014 and/or P0017 - Inspect CMP Actuator Solenoid and Crankshaft End Play


Models: 2004-2009 Chevrolet TrailBlazer

2004-2009 Chevrolet Colorado

2004-2009 GMC Envoy

2004-2009 GMC Canyon

2004-2009 Hummer H3

2004-2009 Saab 97x

with an Inline 4, 5, or 6 Cylinder Engine

(RPO Codes L52, LK5 LL8 LLR LLV)



The following diagnosis might be helpful if the vehicle exhibits the symptom(s) described in this PI.

Condition/Concern:
Some customers may complaint of an engine belt noise, rough idle, and/or SES light with DTC P0014 and/or P0017. If a rough idle is experienced, a P0106 may be stored as well.

Recommendation/Instructions:
If the SI diagnosis does not isolate the cause of this concern, perform the steps below:

Inspect the camshaft actuator solenoid screens below:



(1) Screen for Advance Pressure to Camshaft Actuator
(2) Screen for Pressurized Oil from Oil Pump

(3) Screen for Retard Pressure to Camshaft Actuator

If any of these screens are missing, replace the camshaft actuator solenoid, change the engine oil and filter, and re-evaluate the concern. If none of the screens are missing, proceed to step 2 below.

Measure the crankshaft end play to determine if it is within the specification of 0.0044" - 0.0153" (0.112 - 0.388 mm). If the crankshaft end play is only.001" or so above specification, it is probably not causing this concern. Typically, if excessive crankshaft end play is causing this concern, it will be obviously out of specification by as much as.050" or more when a pry bar is used to move the crankshaft back and forth. Normally it is so obvious that you can see the excessive movement without using a dial indicator.
• 2A) If crankshaft end play is acceptable, replace the camshaft actuator solenoid and re-evaluate the concern.

• 2B) If the crankshaft end play is obviously out of specification, engine replacement is suggested to prevent DTCs P0014 and/or P0017 from returning again due to trace amounts of thrust bearing debris that may remain inside of the engine during alternate repairs, such as crankshaft and bearing replacement. If the vehicle is under warranty, contact the PQC (Product Quality Center) with the engine unit numbers and an engine replacement estimate at 1-866-654-7654 before replacing the engine.

• 2C) If you prefer to repair the engine instead of replace it due to special circumstances, such as an engine backorder situation, no warranty coverage left, or the customer would prefer to have their original engine repaired, you may replace the crankshaft and bearings if the engine block is repairable and it is more cost-effective to repair the engine. However, due to the sensitivity of the CMP actuator system, the vehicle may return with DTCs P0014 and/or P0017 if you do not get 100% of the old thrust bearing debris out of the engine when the repairs are made.

If you decide to replace the crankshaft and bearings for this concern, first remove the oil pan to inspect the engine block and determine if it has been damaged by the crankshaft. If engine block damage is present, replace the engine. If no engine block damage is present, completely disassemble the engine and inspect everything that could have been damaged by the thrust bearing debris, such as the cam bearing journals, cam lobes, cam followers, lash adjusters, timing chain and guides, oil pump, etc... The CMP actuator solenoid and sprocket assembly should be replaced due to thrust bearing material that may be trapped inside of either component. Before replacing the damaged/contaminated components and reassembling the engine, thoroughly clean all of the cylinder head and engine block oil galleys with oil galley brushes and soapy water. Also, thoroughly clean all other areas of the engine that would have contacted the old oil and thrust bearing debris, such as the inside of the cam cover, front cover, rear cover, timing chain guides, oil pan, oil galleys in the nose of the exhaust camshaft, etc..

Please follow this diagnostic or repair process thoroughly and complete each step. If the condition exhibited is resolved without completing every step, the remaining steps do not need to be performed.
 

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Discussion Starter #3
new parts

thanks for your replie.

i am tearing it apart again today to see if the windows for the crank sensor are in the same place on both cranks i have the old one in the shop and i'll see if there the same

as for the checks i did them this morning and the cam actuator line pressures are good. i did replace the cam actuator on the cam and cleaned and inspected the oil pump becuase when i lost the motor excessive bearing material was in the oil. the machine shop cleaned the block and i replaced all the other parts i haven't replaced the cam electric soliniod but i did clean it well.
the crank end play is good and the mechanical rebuild seems good still. it only has 147 miles on the rebuilt engine.

when i am done with the crank checking i am going to try and time it again. it seams very strait foward TDC #1 then align the cam flats then align the dark links with the exhaust cam actuator advanced all the way. put it all together then it should be good

hasn't worked that way yet but maybe this time.:crazy:
 

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crank issue

Got the pan off ?

Did you count how many timing notches were on the counter weight? The 02-06 cranks are the same - 7 notches. 2007 is an oddball I think its 24 notches. '08&09 use 60-2 same as the LS series.

Hate to say it but you'll need to verify and put the right crank in. Or figure out how to install a '07 PCM in your '04 TB.

If the motor is in - pull the crank sensor and use a mirror flashlight and have some turn the motor by hand - pull the plugs. Then count the notches, if you have more than 7 notches - wrong crank. It just won't work with the '04 PCM.
 

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I did have the pan off but I measured the windows from the casting line to the window on each side of it. They are the same as for that distance I got it all back together and realized I should have checked to see how many windows the ring did have. That is easy enough to pull the sensor and check. I did retime the motor again and made sure it was right on. The only thing I can think of if the crank has the right amount of windows is that I bought a new camshaft actuator. It was from GM but it was in fact a remanufactured part. So I had my last one apart and it would be very easy to put that together wrong. I can’t find any pictures of the actuator installed and the cam flats facing up. By now and the fourth time I have had this engine apart I may be grasping at straws. I did get it to run nice today but SES light is still on. I’ll read the code tomorrow and see if it still pops 1345 Crank position camshaft position sensor correlation. An am hoping for 1336 variation not learned because I have had it at the dealer twice to try a relearn and I am hoping that since it didn’t take it may need it be relearned. Plus I tried a new sensor for a few runs.

Thanks for the help
 

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efi-diy is correct, the 02-05 are 7x reluctors, the 06-07s are 24x (standard Gen III LSx GM) and the 08-09s are 58x (standard Gen IV LSx GM). Cant remember if 06 was indeed 24x or 7x, but it is one of the two.

You're going to have issues because the 04 PCM cant accept the 24x reluctor you've got on your crank. Im willing to bet power is down as well as timing cant be accurately controlled. You need to either figure out how to get a 7x crank or figure out how to convert the 24x into a 7x signal.
 

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06 crank

'06 is 7 notches... got one in my engine.
 

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Discussion Starter #8
Alright it’s all back together and timed right I pulled the pan and verified that there are seven widows and they are all spaced the same so that part is good that’s a relief. I retimed the motor again this time I took all the sprockets off and started for the ground up. I ensured I had tdc and went from there.
Well that seemed to work. There are no more codes for the mismatch I can’t believe it but I must have timed it wrong multiple times but it has finally cleared the mismatch code. But of course it can’t be perfect and all work well with this monster. Now we are back to the first post and it is getting the p0014 code I can’t believe it. Thanks for the step by step from the first post for p0014. I followed all the steps and it still won’t clear it comes on after reset at no regular interval. I checked end play even though it is a new motor because that’s the way things are going for this build. But end play is good it has a new thrust bearing when I went through the mains. So I went to the solenoid I cleaned all the screens and I even checked for oil pressure at the actuator yes I started the motor with the solenoid out was a mess but it has clean oil getting to the solenoid. It also has a new cam actuator. I put it all back together and still p0014 does the big manual say anything about resetting the cam sensor after a new actuator?? I went through the all steps for P014 and everything is good and there is no direction what to do if this doesn’t work. In my mind a crank relearn should collate the two but I don’t know if that will do it. Any further direction would be helpful.
Thanks again for all your help on this one.
 

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Them timing gears will get you every time. Here's what the shop manual has for P0014. part 1


2004 Chevrolet TrailBlazer - 4WD | Bravada, Envoy, Rainier, TrailBlazer (VIN S/T) Service Manual | Document ID: 868968
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DTC P0014
Circuit Description
• The cam phasing system is a hydraulically actuated phase shifting mechanism. The powertrain control module (PCM) supplies the ignition positive driver and ground circuits. A pulse width modulated (PWM) driver controls the amount that the camshaft actuator solenoid assembly advances or retards the exhaust camshaft. The exhaust camshaft is commanded to a maximum retard position of 25 degrees. When the exhaust camshaft is retarded at the maximum rate, the duty cycle of the signal is at 100 percent. The maximum advance rate has a 0 percent duty cycle. Other than when the camshaft is at full advance, a 50 percent duty cycle is used to maintain a steady retard angle.

• If the desired and actual cam phase angle error exceeds its tolerance value for a certain amount of time, then DTC P0014 will set.

Conditions for Running the DTC
• The engine is running.

• The PCM has enabled the cam phaser.

Conditions for Setting the DTC
• The vehicle must be driven.

• The difference between the desired CAM phase angle and the actual CAM phase angle is more than 3.5 degrees.

• The CAM phaser is steady for 12.25 seconds.

• The condition is present for 12.25 seconds.

Action Taken When the DTC Sets
• The control module illuminates the malfunction indicator lamp (MIL) on the second consecutive ignition cycle that the diagnostic runs and fails.

• The control module records the operating conditions at the time the diagnostic fails. The first time the diagnostic fails, the control module stores this information in the Failure Records. If the diagnostic reports a failure on the second consecutive ignition cycle, the control module records the operating conditions at the time of the failure. The control module writes the operating conditions to the Freeze Frame and updates the Failure Records.

Conditions for Clearing the MIL/DTC
• The control module turns OFF the malfunction indicator lamp (MIL) after 3 consecutive ignition cycles that the diagnostic runs and does not fail.

• A current DTC, Last Test Failed, clears when the diagnostic runs and passes.

• A history DTC clears after 40 consecutive warm-up cycles, if no failures are reported by this or any other emission related diagnostic.

• Clear the MIL and the DTC with a scan tool.

Diagnostic Aids
• The scan tool cam phase control function increments the cam phaser in 10 percent increments. Each increment equates to 2.5 degrees of cam phasing. A cam phase angle of 15 degrees is achieved by commanding the phaser with the scan tool to 60 percent.

• Inspect any engine mechanical work that has been performed recently. Verify that the engine timing has not been altered.

• If this DTC is set along with any crankshaft position (CKP) or camshaft position (CMP) sensor DTCs, then both the CKP and CMP sensor DTCs should be diagnosed prior to performing this diagnostic. The PCM uses both inputs to determine the actual camshaft position.

• Check the following items:

- A loose CMP sensor causing a variance in the sensor signal

- A loose CKP sensor causing a variance in the sensor signal

- Excessive free play in the timing chain and gear assembly

- Debris or contamination interfering with the camshaft position actuator solenoid valve assembly

- Debris or contamination interfering with the camshaft position actuator assembly

• Engine oil has a major impact upon the camshaft actuation system's responsiveness. Oil temperature, viscosity, and quality can slow and/or inhibit the phaser's ability to reach a desired phase angle.

• If an intermittent condition exists, refer to Intermittent Conditions.

Step
Action
Values
Yes
No

Schematic Reference: Engine Controls Schematics

Connector End View Reference: Powertrain Control Module Connector End Views or Engine Controls Connector End Views

1
Did you perform the Diagnostic System Check-Engine Controls?
--
Go to Step 2
Go to Diagnostic System Check - Engine Controls

2
Connect a scan tool.
Start and idle the engine for 2 minutes.
Increase engine RPM to 1,500.
With a scan tool, command the cam phase solenoid from 0 percent to 100 percent.
Does the Cam Phase Angle Actual remain close to the Cam Phase Angle Desired at all commanded positions?
--
Go to Step 3
Go to Step 4

3
Observe the Freeze Frame/Failure Records data for this DTC.
Turn OFF the ignition for 30 seconds.
Start the engine.
Operate the vehicle within the Conditions for running the DTC. You may also operate the vehicle within the conditions that you observed from the Freeze Frame/Failure Records.
Does the DTC fail this ignition?
--
Go to Step 4
Go to Diagnostic Aids

4
Let the engine idle.

Does the engine run rough or stall?
--
Go to Step 9
Go to Step 5

5
Turn OFF the ignition.
Let the vehicle sit for 1 minute.
Check the engine oil level.
Is the engine oil level within operating range?
--
Go to Step 6
Go to Fluid and Lubricant Recommendations in Maintenance and Lubrication

6
Install an oil pressure gage. Refer to Oil Pressure Diagnosis and Testing in Engine Mechanical.
Start the engine.
Increase the engine RPM to 1,400 RPM.
Observe the engine oil pressure.
Does the oil pressure gage indicate engine oil pressure less than the specified value?
193 kPa (28 psi)
Go to Oil Pressure Diagnosis and Testing in Engine Mechanical
Go to Step 7
 

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part 2.

7
Increase engine RPM to 1,500 RPM.
With a scan tool, command the cam phase solenoid from 0 percent to 100 percent.
Does the Cam Phase Angle Actual increment at all?
--
Go to Step 8
Go to Step 10

8
Turn OFF the ignition.
Disconnect the camshaft position (CMP) actuator solenoid connector.
Measure the resistance of the CMP actuator solenoid valve assembly with a DMM. Refer to Circuit Testing in Wiring Systems.
Does the resistance measure within the specified value?
8-12 Ω
Go to Step 13
Go to Step 20

9
Turn OFF the ignition.
Disconnect the CMP actuator solenoid connector.
Probe the CMP actuator solenoid high control circuit with a test lamp connected to good ground. Refer to Probing Electrical Connectors in Wiring Systems.
Caution: Avoid contact with moving parts and hot surfaces while working around a running engine in order to prevent physical injury.

Start the engine.
With a scan tool, command the cam phase solenoid between 0 percent and 50 percent.
Does the test lamp turn ON and OFF?
--
Go to Step 10
Go to Step 15

10
Turn OFF the ignition.
Remove the CMP solenoid valve assembly from the engine block. Refer to Camshaft Position Actuator Solenoid Valve Replacement.
Inspect the camshaft position actuator solenoid valve assembly for the following:
• Torn screens

• Debris on the screens

• Debris clogging the oil ports

• Missing screens

• Oil seepage at the solenoid connector pins

Did you find a problem?
--
Go to Step 20
Go to Step 11

11
Connect a jumper wire between the CMP actuator low reference circuit at the solenoid and to a good ground.
Connect a fused jumper wire between B+ and the CMP actuator high control circuit at the solenoid and to battery voltage. Refer to Using Fused Jumper Wires in Wiring Systems.
Momentarily touch the fused jumper to B+.
Observe the spool valve inside the CMP actuator.
Does the spool valve move from fully closed to fully opened?
--
Go to Step 12
Go to Step 18

12
Inspect for the following conditions:

• Excessive timing chain play--Refer to Camshaft Timing Chain, Sprocket, and Tensioner Replacement in Engine Mechanical.

• Excessive camshaft end play

• Excessive crankshaft end play

• Proper installation of the CMP actuator assembly--Refer to Camshaft Timing Chain, Sprocket, and Tensioner Replacement in Engine Mechanical.

Did you find and correct the condition?
--
Go to Step 22
Go to Step 13

13
Disconnect the powertrain control module (PCM). Refer to Powertrain Control Module Replacement.
Measure the resistance on the CMP actuator high control circuit with a DMM. Refer to Circuit Testing in Wiring Systems.
Does the resistance measure more than the specified value?
5 Ω
Go to Step 16
Go to Step 14

14
Measure the resistance on the low reference circuit with a DMM. Refer to Circuit Testing in Wiring Systems.

Does the resistance measure more than the specified value?
5 Ω
Go to Step 17
Go to Camshaft Position Actuator Diagnosis in Engine Mechanical

15
Test the CMP actuator high control circuit for a short to voltage. Refer to Circuit Testing and Wiring Repairs in Wiring Systems.

Did you find and correct the condition?
--
Go to Step 22
Go to Step 19

16
Repair the high resistance on the CMP actuator high control circuit. Refer to Wiring Repairs in Wiring Systems.

Did you complete the repair?
--
Go to Step 22
--

17
Repair the high resistance on the CMP actuator low reference circuit. Refer to Wiring Repairs in Wiring Systems.

Did you complete the repair?
--
Go to Step 22
--

18
Test for an intermittent and for a poor connection at the CMP actuator solenoid valve assembly. Refer to Testing for Intermittent Conditions and Poor Connections and Connector Repairs in Wiring Systems.

Did you find and correct the condition?
--
Go to Step 22
Go to Step 20

19
Test for an intermittent and for a poor connection at the PCM. Refer to Testing for Intermittent Conditions and Poor Connections and Connector Repairs in Wiring Systems.

Did you find and correct the condition?
--
Go to Step 22
Go to Step 21

20
Replace the CMP actuator solenoid. Refer to Camshaft Position Actuator Solenoid Valve Replacement.

Did you complete the replacement?
--
Go to Step 22
--

21
Replace the PCM. Refer to Powertrain Control Module Replacement.

Did you complete the replacement?
--
Go to Step 22
--

22
Clear the DTCs with a scan tool.
Turn OFF the ignition for 30 seconds.
Start the engine.
Operate the vehicle within the Conditions for Running the DTC. You may also operate the vehicle within the conditions that you observed from the Freeze Frame/Failure Records.
Did the DTC fail this ignition?
--
Go to Step 2
Go to Step 23

23
Observe the Capture Info with a scan tool.

Are there any DTCs that have not been diagnosed?
--
Go to Diagnostic Trouble Code (DTC) List
System OK
 

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You may want to go back to my first reply. That is the latest information in the service manual.
 

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Discussion Starter #12
thanks for the tech pages i'll check this out this week end if i can i may take a break for a day or two we will see.

thanks again

tim
 
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