Chevy TrailBlazer, TrailBlazer SS and GMC Envoy Forum banner

1 - 18 of 18 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
20 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
Hi!
I have a 2005 GMC Envoy, SLT Elite 4x4 4200 series engine with 200,000 miles.
I just bought my wife this vehicle a week ago. Drove fine for 4 days.
Did the general inspection before I purchased it. I checked the oil stick first before doing an oil change. Was not milky. changed oil and oil filter, radiator flush and fill, was going to do the spark plugs next but the wife needed to take it 45 min to the next town for business.
It Drove fine all the way there until she called saying the vehicle sputtered and died in the middle of the road. She started it back up and pulled into a public parking lot as it sputtered and died again as she parked it. She tried starting it several more times and it wanted to turn over but did not.
I pulled the alternator and battery and had the Auto store check them. Both were Good!
Then I thought fuel relay, filter, pump, regulator because when I had her turn the key to the on position to listen to the fuel pump engage. It made a noise like putting your finger on a mini fan to slow it down very quickly to a stop position. So I bought a new relay and plugged it in. The Relay sound and feel of clicking was present.
Still no start.
I talked to a cop that drove by and asked if I could park there overnight and he wasn't going to let me until I told him he had an nice M-4 sitting in his car.
He Asked me if I was prior military. Told him 8 yrs Army 2 tours Iraq so he gave me a night. God bless the USA! Thanks Buddy!
I had no other choice but to tow it home the next day.
Installed a new fuel pump. Listen for the prime. Good prime! Turn the key back and forth 2-3 times to get the line primed good. Fired it up and it chuckled for 4 or 5 turns and stayed running for 5 seconds then idled down and died. Started it back up, chuckled and died again and that's all it can do.
I researched the web for location of fuel filter and fuel regulator and I guess it didn't have either one for this make and model vehicle.
I don't own a fuel pressure gage. But I did press the schrader valve on the rail, to see if 50psi of fuel would shoot out and it only dribbled out like holding a table spoon of water in your mouth and spitting it out every time I did a fuel line prime and pressed in the schrader valve.
But I did notice, if you put some fuel down the throttle body. It stays running like a champ till the amount of fuel put in, burns out.
So in conclusion I suspect this has nothing to do with spark or crank.
It's more like lack of fuel consumption. But between a good fuel pump and the schrader valve, the only alternative at this point I would have to guess is the fuel lines.
My head is going in circles over this one and would love any feed back or opinions anyone has!

Thanks!

Sgt. Mag
 

·
Registered
2002 chevy trailblazer_lt
Joined
·
56 Posts
When you changed the fuel pump how did the line look? Do you smell gas? Check for leaks? The lines are known to rust out above the tank. I am guessing they are OK, you would have seen this when changing the pump but had to ask anyway.

Lights in the dash? In particular the security light, does that come on for at least a moment when first turning the key on (so you know the light even works)? The security system can disable the fuel pump under certain circumstances is why I ask even though it seems unlikely to be your issue since that usually only occurs at startup, not after driving for 45 minutes.

OK, What are your resources? Test light? Multimeter? We know you have no fuel pressure test gauge. What state are you in? (Maybe there's a member reading this nearby).
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
20 Posts
Discussion Starter #3
When you changed the fuel pump how did the line look? Do you smell gas? Check for leaks? The lines are known to rust out above the tank. I am guessing they are OK, you would have seen this when changing the pump but had to ask anyway.

Lights in the dash? In particular the security light, does that come on for at least a moment when first turning the key on (so you know the light even works)? The security system can disable the fuel pump under certain circumstances is why I ask even though it seems unlikely to be your issue since that usually only occurs at startup, not after driving for 45 minutes.

OK, What are your resources? Test light? Multimeter? We know you have no fuel pressure test gauge. What state are you in? (Maybe there's a member reading this nearby).
(Update)
Thank you for the replies!

I have a test light and just bought a Code Reader & OBDII scanner by AUTEL- AUTO LINK AL329 model

The only code that popped up was;

P0017- crankshaft position
Camshaft Position
Correlation Bank 1 sensor B

This is my first time using a scanner but I've looked up on how to diagnose these problems and was starting with the easy and less expensive ones first of coarse.

I don't know why I'm so stuck on the rail schrader valve not having any pressure come out what so ever, when I can clearly hear the fuel pump priming the line.

I'm guessing if this is the only code I'm getting as of right now, by some weirded explaination, that this will fix my fuel problem but I wouldn't see even how so...

Code P0017 diagnosis

The P0017 is an OBD-II code triggered when the camshaft and crankshaft don’t align as they should be. It’s often caused by the engine timing problem, which can happen because of several things including a loose or short wiring or a damaged power module.

In Chevy, P0017 is indicated when the crankshaft and exhaust camshaft position is not within 10 degrees. It can also be caused by wiring issues or when the sensors are bad. To fix this, you need to pinpoint the specific problem to avoid misdiagnosis.

What Are the Symptoms Of P0017 Code?
  • Engine Malfunction Indicator Lamp light up
  • Reduced engine performance
  • The engine fails to start.
  • Reduced Fuel Mileage.
  • The engine runs erratically or rough on acceleration.
What Are The Causes Of P0017?
  • Wrong engine oil filter or oil viscosity.
  • Contaminated or aerated engine oil.
  • Mechanical oil system failure.
  • Erratic Camshaft and Crankshaft position sensor signals.
  • Worn-out belt or distribution chain.
  • Misaligned timing belt.
  • Defective crankshaft or camshaft tone ring.
  • Bad wiring to the Camshaft or Crankshaft Position Sensor.
  • Shorted CMP sensor controller solenoid.
How Serious Is The P0017 Code?
P0017 is not severe in most cases and doesn’t require immediate attention. However, depending on the issue triggering the code, the engine performance can be affected. The fuel consumption will get worse and the engine runs rough. If you don’t fix the problem, there are chances that the engine will incur serious damages.

How To Diagnose And Fix The Code P0017
Tools you’ll need:
We use an OBD2 scanner to diagnose the P0017 code.
We use an OBD2 scanner to diagnose the P0017 code.
  • OBD2 scanner
  • Car specific service manual
  • An oscillator
  • Hand tools to access the cam and CPK sensors and other components
Method:
Step 1. Scan for other active DTC
Using the OBD scanner, check if there are any other codes available. Some of the common codes that come along the P0017 includes the P0009, P0016, P0018, and P0019. If these codes appear, they might make it easy for you to identify the problem. You will need to diagnose them and even fix them to see if the code goes away.

Step 2. Check the engine oil.
Ensure that the engine oil is full and clean. Clean pressurized oil is essential to the CMP actuator performance.

You must observe the oil level and make sure it is within an operating range. Make sure the oil is not burnt, old, or contains additives. If there is any issues, change the oil and filters.

Step 3: Visually inspect the wiring, sensors, and connectors.
Many problems can be easily found in the connection or the sensors. Repair any open solenoid circuit. Check the wiring around the crankshaft and camshaft sensor. Repair and replace the corroded and damaged wires and ensure that all the connections are in perfect condition.

Step 4. Check the condition of the vehicle when the code is set from the freeze frame data.
Step 5. Checking the Cam phaser position.

There are a few things that can cause the cam phaser misalignment. First would be dirt and debris that plug up the inlet screen feeding the phaser, producing low pressure. Even more, helical gear phaser can be stuck from the dirt and debris causing misalignment.

Also, the phaser can suffer from mechanical damage, which can prevent them from returning to their neutral timing.

To fix all this, you need to use the scan tool to monitor the cam position. clean any sludge and stuck gear and repair any broken part phaser part.

This test results can indicate several problems: If the phaser doesn’t come back to the lock pin at idle, the phaser is stuck in oil control. It can also indicate that the phaser is electrically stuck on VVT solenoid.

When the position is lagging or slow towards the desired position it can indicate a tarnished oil control valve. This can be resolved by replacing the oil control valve.

Step 6: Check for the timing chain misalignment.
If the chain is misaligned, check for any damaged tensioner. Replace if it’s stretched or damaged. Otherwise, align the timing chain. Give you’re a vehicle a road test and check if it’s in the right place.

Step 7: Check for mechanical or electrical issues in the cam phaser.
If everything is working normal but still getting the code, it’s time to check for a faulty phaser. To determine this, you need to test the mechanical or electrical parts in the phaser. Use the oscillator to check the mechanical performance and replace any broken parts.

Step 8: If the code is still present, go to a professional for further diagnosis.
The vehicle might be suffering from a damaged PCM. This is rare but if present it can cause code P0017.

Note: After every step, you need to clear and retest the code to avoid misdiagnosis.
 

·
Registered
2008 gmc envoy_sle
Joined
·
613 Posts
hi, sorry to hear about the problems your having.

this seems to be a common problem ,P0017 , its commonly a cam or crank sensor or sometimes a Camshaft Position Actuator Solenoid (CPAS). (common cause, dirty oil which plugs the screen)


solutions

flush oil.

check and clean , Camshaft and Crankshaft position sensor maybe oil fouled, if not replace.

remove (CPAS). , if not Ac delco or if its dirty and oil fouled replace it.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
20 Posts
Discussion Starter #5
When you changed the fuel pump how did the line look? Do you smell gas? Check for leaks? The lines are known to rust out above the tank. I am guessing they are OK, you would have seen this when changing the pump but had to ask anyway.

Lights in the dash? In particular the security light, does that come on for at least a moment when first turning the key on (so you know the light even works)? The security system can disable the fuel pump under certain circumstances is why I ask even though it seems unlikely to be your issue since that usually only occurs at startup, not after driving for 45 minutes.

OK, What are your resources? Test light? Multimeter? We know you have no fuel pressure test gauge. What state are you in? (Maybe there's a member reading this nearby).
All fuel lines were dry.

No fuel present on floor during priming of pump and initial turn over.

No smell of gas.

I live in michigan known for rusty vehicles but one of the reason why I purchased this vehicle and another I bought myself was because they look like they came from a southern state. So No Rust under the body's.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
20 Posts
Discussion Starter #6
hi, sorry to hear about the problems your having.

this seems to be a common problem ,P0017 , its commonly a cam or crank sensor or sometimes a Camshaft Position Actuator Solenoid (CPAS). (common cause, dirty oil which plugs the screen)


solutions

flush oil.

check and clean , Camshaft and Crankshaft position sensor maybe oil fouled, if not replace.

remove (CPAS). , if not Ac delco or if its dirty and oil fouled replace it.
Thank you for your reply!

I figured I would pick up a new camshaft position sensor first to see if that fixes the problem.
I've also researched that you could have no fuel pressure due to this sensor or valve/actuator being fouled up. So that will be my next step.
As far as swapping out my fuel pump for 300 is killing my spirits through all of this because that might not have been the initial reason for the break down!
On a positive note.... I am more knowledgeable because of it all! 😆
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
20 Posts
Discussion Starter #7
Thank you for your reply!

I figured I would pick up a new camshaft position sensor first to see if that fixes the problem.
I've also researched that you could have no fuel pressure due to this sensor or valve/actuator being fouled up. So that will be my next step.
As far as swapping out my fuel pump for 300 is killing my spirits through all of this because that might not have been the initial reason for the break down!
On a positive note.... I am more knowledgeable because of it all! 😆
BTW the sensor was in great shape but changing it out anyways for 40.

I figured procces of elimination.

I wonder if I can take it back if it doesnt fix the problem. Lol
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
20 Posts
Discussion Starter #8
hi, sorry to hear about the problems your having.

this seems to be a common problem ,P0017 , its commonly a cam or crank sensor or sometimes a Camshaft Position Actuator Solenoid (CPAS). (common cause, dirty oil which plugs the screen)


solutions

flush oil.

check and clean , Camshaft and Crankshaft position sensor maybe oil fouled, if not replace.

remove (CPAS). , if not Ac delco or if its dirty and oil fouled replace it.
DTC
Code P0017 Bank 1, sensor B present

Bank 1- is the side of the engine that contains cylinder #1
Sensor B - is the exhaust camshaft

Bought and installed the Camshaft sensor.
Erased the code and the engine runs like it's misfiring for 5 seconds then dies.
No codes are popping up at this time when scanned.
I'm over it all and bought to take her out back and put 1 in her lol
 

·
Registered
2002 chevy trailblazer_lt
Joined
·
56 Posts
Before you go out and get a crank sensor know this. When replaced a CASE relearn is required and that requires a high end (expensive) scantool. Thus I would avoid replacing the crank sensor without confirming that it really is bad.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
20 Posts
Discussion Starter #10
DTC
Code P0017 Bank 1, sensor B present

Bank 1- is the side of the engine that contains cylinder #1
Sensor B - is the exhaust camshaft

Bought and installed the Camshaft sensor.
Erased the code and the engine runs like it's misfiring for 5 seconds then dies.
No codes are popping up at this time when scanned.
I'm over it all and bought to take her out back and put 1 in her lol
Before you go out and get a crank sensor know this. When replaced a CASE relearn is required and that requires a high end (expensive) scantool. Thus I would avoid replacing the crank sensor without confirming that it really is bad.
Update!

So.. Bad news, good news

I didn't get the engine running with the new Camshaft sensor but...

I did find that the vvt crankshaft control solenoid was indeed covered in oil inside and out. So I'm guessing I need the part as well as a new wired plug for it. I also noticed that even with it being bolted in place that it spins freely. I'm hoping that there isn't further damage inside the engine block because of this matter. I guess if I pull the vvt out and see metal shavings, I can only guess that theres internal damage and would have to take it all apart to find out what further damage is done.
Screenshot_2020-03-23-21-26-03.png
 

·
Registered
2002 chevy trailblazer_lt
Joined
·
56 Posts
I do not believe that it matters if it spins. I also don't believe this part would prevent it from starting. I could of course be mistaken about that though. This part allows pressurized oil to flow to the cam phaser which retards the exhaust valve timing. Mine has had oil on it for many years. Once in a while I spray clean the connection with electronics or MAF cleaner.
 

·
Registered
2002 chevy trailblazer_lt
Joined
·
56 Posts
When you changed the oil... did you refill with the recommend viscosity? I have heard these engines are sensitive to this.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
20 Posts
Discussion Starter #13
Yes the oil change was to specs.

It is holding the idle for about 6-8 seconds till it dies. If it were carburated I'd have to say it's running like the distributor cap is off set. Not firing on all cylinders. Off timing.
Screenshot_2020-03-23-19-18-59.png

The crank and cam sensors threw this code to the scanner so I figured if I replaced them both it would fix the code.
OPERATION. The PCM uses the Camshaft Position (CMP) sensor signal to determine the position of the No. 1 cylinder piston during its power stroke. The signal is used by the PCM to calculate fuel injection mode of operation.
Hence the reason the fuel injectors are not delivering fuel to the throttle body. I would figure.
If I take a small amount of gas and pour it into the throttle body the engine stays running like a champ.
It doesn't misfire.
So I don't understand how if the cam and crank sensors are not timed perfectly, why it doesn't misfire or seem out of time when I force feed it fuel.
It seems that the timing is fine and the only problem left would be fuel starvation.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
20 Posts
Discussion Starter #14
Yes the oil change was to specs.

It is holding the idle for about 6-8 seconds till it dies. If it were carburated I'd have to say it's running like the distributor cap is off set. Not firing on all cylinders. Off timing. View attachment 54863
The crank and cam sensors threw this code to the scanner so I figured if I replaced them both it would fix the code.
OPERATION. The PCM uses the Camshaft Position (CMP) sensor signal to determine the position of the No. 1 cylinder piston during its power stroke. The signal is used by the PCM to calculate fuel injection mode of operation.
Hence the reason the fuel injectors are not delivering fuel to the throttle body. I would figure.
If I take a small amount of gas and pour it into the throttle body the engine stays running like a champ.
It doesn't misfire.
So I don't understand how if the cam and crank sensors are not timed perfectly, why it doesn't misfire or seem out of time when I force feed it fuel.
It seems that the timing is fine and the only problem left would be fuel starvation.
I do understand A crankshaft variation relearn must be performed if: A diagnostic trouble code of P1336 is present. The computer has been replaced or re-programmed. "The crankshaft position sensor has been replaced. "... This allows the computer to accurately detect an engine misfire throughout the engine RPM range.
So I need a mechanic to finish this job after replacing the crankshaft position sensor... Great! Lol
Wish I had a mechanic buddy to help me out!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
20 Posts
Discussion Starter #15
I do understand A crankshaft variation relearn must be performed if: A diagnostic trouble code of P1336 is present. The computer has been replaced or re-programmed. "The crankshaft position sensor has been replaced. "... This allows the computer to accurately detect an engine misfire throughout the engine RPM range.
So I need a mechanic to finish this job after replacing the crankshaft position sensor... Great! Lol
Wish I had a mechanic buddy to help me out!
I did find this on a different forum and would like some others to feed back on this matter if they have experienced the same thing.
I'm out of money, a vehicle and options at this point.
Getting a little desperate at this time.
Screenshot_2020-03-24-02-11-13.png
Screenshot_2020-03-24-02-11-04.png
 

·
Registered
2002 chevy trailblazer_lt
Joined
·
56 Posts
Often times the first impression is the right one. We really need to get a fuel pressure test somehow. Back to the basics as it were...

There are a couple of active Facebook groups for our platform (GMT360/370) as well as other websites. Maybe can find a helpful soul local to you there if not here? I'm way out in Colorado so of little use in that regard.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
20 Posts
Discussion Starter #17
Often times the first impression is the right one. We really need to get a fuel pressure test somehow. Back to the basics as it were...

There are a couple of active Facebook groups for our platform (GMT360/370) as well as other websites. Maybe can find a helpful soul local to you there if not here? I'm way out in Colorado so of little use in that regard.
Ok I'll check there!
Thank you for all your help!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
20 Posts
Discussion Starter #18
Ok I'll check there!
Thank you for all your help!
Update

So I took some advice to start from the basics after taking out the valve variable timing solenoid, which I'll have to replace for 65 because I lifted one of the screens out of it by accident.
I figured I would start by checking the condition of the spark plugs. I pulled off the coil pack and looked inside the well and saw 1/4 inch of oil at the bottom of the well surrounding the spark plug. Hence the reason why the engine would not turn over any more I'm assuming.
So I have started disassembling the top side engine to replace the valve cover gasket along with the well seals and since I had to take off the intake to get to the valve cover. I'll be replacing that gasket as well.

Fingers crossed that this was the main reason.

And not the head gasket!
 
1 - 18 of 18 Posts
Top